The Armour Archive

I seek primary source accounts of men being obliged to sleep in their armour. I am interested in references from any period and culture. I have a few already assembled, and am continuing to dig for more. I'd like to find as many as I can...

Cool,

I can't wait to see if anyone finds this. Being as I have done it at Pennsic,..

try Cortez's conquest of New Spain (ie. Mexico), several references to sleeping in harness.

it's mentioned, perhaps as a poetic device, in Gawain and the Green Knight:

"Well nigh slain by the sleet, he slept iron-clad
more nights than enow in the naked rocks,
where clattering from the crest the cold brook tumbled,
and hung high o'er his head in hard icicles."

Stanza 31, lines 17-19. Tolkien's translation.

Froissart talks about it during raids in to Scotland.

i dont know about primary source accounts, but i can tell you i had do do it more then once in iraq. and i know lots of others that had to also. so it may not be in a book but im sure they had to do it back then too.

randver wrote:i dont know about primary source accounts, but i can tell you i had do do it more then once in iraq. and i know lots of others that had to also. so it may not be in a book but im sure they had to do it back then too.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Primary source account, there ya go, first hand documentation

_The Unconquered Knight_, pp. 12-13: “Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow; their ease is weariness and sweat; they have one good day after many bad; they are vowed to all manner of labour; they are for ever swallowing their fear; they expose themselves to every peril; they give up their bodies to the advencture of life in death. Mouldy bread or biscuit, meat cooked or uncooked; to-day enough to eat and to-morrow nothing, little or no wine, water from a pond or a butt, bad quarters, the shelter of a tent or branches, a bad bed, poor sleep with their armour still on their backs, burdened with iron, the enemy an arrow-shot off."

I once wore my maille shirt to see what it was like back around 1981; I gave up after 3 days, felt like someone sitting on my chest when I was sleeping.

Thomas

Might want to look for a primary source about Frederick II's Italian campaigns, specifically the battle of Cortenuova in 1237. Christopher Gravett's description of the battle includes his saying that after the initial skirmish one afternoon as the Lombard and Imperial armies closed on each other, Frederick ordered his knights to sleep in their armor for the night in order to be ready for action in the morning. (German Medieval Armies 1000-1300, p. 35).

I just read that yesterday so when I saw the thread I figured I'd go dig that one up for ya', Josh.

-Gregory

You might also check the accounts of the DeSoto Entrada into the American Southeast.

At my first Pennsic we werer tasked to hold a mountain pass. It was very, very, VERY clear that the other side was never going to press for this pass again before time ran out.

There were 20 minutes left in the scenario, maybe more.

One of the guys in my barony rolled his eyes, laid down on the field with his shield over his face and fell asleep. We kicked him awake when we were finally given permission to join the final push.

Arent there paintings of German guards in the Holy Sepulchre asleep at their posts wearing brigandines?

Good help is hard to find. The guards at the Sepulchre are ALWAYS sleeping!

One of the battles between the Swiss and Landsknechts, IIRC, had the fighting continue so late in the day, that everyone just slept where they were, and continue in the morning. You decide if they trusted their mortal enemies enough to disrobe.

I think there's something in Joinville's memoir of the 7th Crusade; and I know there's an account of Henry V's tent collapsing on him during a rainstorm on his Welsh campaign, the fact that he was sleeping in his armour being the only thing that kept him from being smothered to death. Not sure of the primary source on that one.

For really primary, I have slept in my hauberk. Wasn't even that uncomfortable. It helps if you're really tired.

leeping in full plate, while sitting, can be quasi-comfortable since, if you can find just the right spot, it sort of holds you up by itself.

I think it depends on what time period. It seems that most battles were discussed as to where they would be held prior to the matter. The French seem to have started using guerrilla tactics after they realized that they weren't winning set piece battles against the English. What I'm getting at is if surprise attacks weren't made very often, why would you sleep in your armour? It just wasn't the 'chivalric' way until later in the 15th century. But then, look at Bannockburn. A two day battle. I'm sure that the fatigue level was so high that you didn't give a crap if you slept in your armour or on manure the night between the fighting.

Also, what was the percentage of fully armoured persons in an army anyways? Maybe 8-10%. So in an army of 1000, only 80 to 100 guys had armour, and since they were noblemen, let the 'regular' army guys hold them off until I get my armour on.

Just a poor theory.

randver wrote:i dont know about primary source accounts, but i can tell you i had do do it more then once in iraq. and i know lots of others that had to also. so it may not be in a book but im sure they had to do it back then too.

I feel your pain my friend, I did the exact same thing in Iraq and it was not exactly comfortable, but you could do it no problem!

duke of burgundy at the siege of neuss slept in a reclining chair in armour????

i don't know where i got that though... as usual.

I've fallen asleep in a frogmouth ath the tower of london when waiting to mount my horse and stiiting down on the mounting block. 2008?

Glen K wrote:leeping in full plate, while sitting, can be quasi-comfortable since, if you can find just the right spot, it sort of holds you up by itself.

Glen speaks the gospel truth!

There's a picture of me as an MP squad leader in the back of a bouncing 5 ton truck heading out to a riot in Panama with my chin resting on my flak vest and trench gun (emptied chamber) used to prop my k-pot up (as the chin strap gave my head a wonderful suspension). Sleep, shit, shower & shave when you can and as if it's the last you'll get for a long while .. the motto of the grunt. It's been around for a very very very long time ... if you want to see .. find me at Pennsic this year if there is a long/dull bridge battle .. I'll be the guy in full transitional plate sleeping at the back with his kettle helm tilted to keep the sun/rain out and chinstrap set to comfy.

I seem to recall some posts here where Vermin has done entire Pennsics without leaving harness. Ask him or Maeryk.

Not really a historical reference per se, but his insights would possibly be helpful.

randver wrote:i dont know about primary source accounts, but i can tell you i had do do it more then once in iraq. and i know lots of others that had to also. so it may not be in a book but im sure they had to do it back then too.

^^^
This.
I've had to sleep in full "battle rattle" more times than I can count. I can't imagine life as a field soldier was *that* much different in the past. You still never quite knew when the enemy was going to attack. And you still catnapped with some men watching and some men sleeping, whenever you could. Maybe not every member of an army - but a lot of them, I feel quite confident.

Does it really need sources?
I slept in armor in a modern military I am sure someone in the past had to do it as well.

They enemy isnt going to wait while you armor up.

i've done it between battles at Pennsic


slept in IBA and ACH during FTX's


if your tiered enough you can sleep anywhere

You might try reading Bernal Diaz de Castillo's account of the conquest of Mexico- I think he even mentions it in the foreward. It's been several decades since I read it.