The Armour Archive

I saw this article on Myarmoury and thought you folks might be interested

http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=20316

Frikkin' sweet.

I doubt he swam much less respectably than most Medieval men would - as the Myarmoury thread states, there isn't much to say about men of these times being good swimmers... But his harness is definitely not in great condition for such tests. It is not very form-fitting, with lots of excessive space between his backplate and back, pauldrons and shoulders and just in general the gaps are pretty wide. I think this would have made a great deal of difference as to whether or not swimming would be feasible. A tight-fitting harness would allow more mobility and create a more streamlined effect for the man who had to swim in the armor, and I think his chances would be better than the performance Michael put up here.

It's an excellent test, nonetheless, and props to him for putting his harness through that level of hardship. He states in the thread that because of the pool's chemicals it started to oxide the steel within 20 minutes! Too bad, he deserves free armor for the attempt rather than rusty stuff.

I think that the overall conclusion that can be drawn is that a strong man who had enough will to survive in a period harness would likely be able to swim a considerable distance or remain above water for a while before drowning. I can see gauntlets, sabatons and a helmet being the primary elements that would diminish such chances considerably.

-Gregory

Somewhat related. I used to go to the classic after the last battle and jump in, armour and all, to wash all the sweat and salt out of it.

We have experimented with swimming in armor in the Longship Company. It is somewhat a matter of survival in our case.

A strong swimmer does okay for about three minutes, and there is a buoyancy factor in that the mail, due to displacement, is relatively lighter once you are in the water.

Most of our efforts are directed in getting out of the mail as quickly as possible. A head-down position is most useful, if somewhat counterintuitive.

We regard swimming in, and shedding, mail a survival tactic. Of course, Beowulf did it for bragging rights, but we are not Beowulf.

Besides, he said he wanted it for those annoying sea monsters anyway...

I'm thinking of giving it a go, but REALLY don't want to rust the hell out of my maille. Maybe if I oil the living shit out of it first...

olaf haraldson wrote:I'm thinking of giving it a go, but REALLY don't want to rust the hell out of my maille. Maybe if I oil the living shit out of it first...

If you have choices:

First, avoid salt water. (A little hard for me.)

Second, avoid heavily chlorinated pools.

Best environment would be fresh water pond or lake; then rinse it down with fresh water. Well water is best but city water tends to be more lightly chlorinated than pool water. Towel dry and air dry as soon as possible, then give it a light re-oiling.

Worst choice: Go swimming in Atlantic or Caribbean in summer, toss in hot car trunk, leave for a week.

This is one of the better excuses I've heard for buying stainless armor over mild. If you could do the experiment in a stainless shirt with the same approximate weight and resistance to being moved in and removed as a mild one (eg, riveted flat ring but not butcher's mail with tiny welded round rings), you could get your data without putting your precious at risk.

I swam quite a distance without too much trouble in a pretty heavy mail hauberk once. I would like to warn people however that I am a very strong swimmer (I have done 5km ocean swims and could do 50m in around 27secs) and have worked as a lifeguard - so stay in shallows and make sure someone else is around if you want to try this and you are not sure if your swimming skills are up to it.
To be honest the undergarments filling up with water were as much of a bother as the mail weight.

i had a very scary incident with this. the first time i got a hauberk, i took it too a friends lake house and jumped in about 4 foot of water. im far from a good swimmer, but thought the water was shallow enough to be safe. wrong. went face down to the mud, the hauberk sliding up around my chest, my lower half floating up. i could not get out of it or stand up to literally save my life. thankfully i had a friend standing by who pulled me out. i wont go near a puddle in armour anymore...

Gerhard von Liebau wrote: But his harness is definitely not in great condition for such tests. It is not very form-fitting, with lots of excessive space between his backplate and back, pauldrons and shoulders and just in general the gaps are pretty wide...I think that the overall conclusion that can be drawn is that a strong man who had enough will to survive in a period harness would likely be able to swim a considerable distance or remain above water for a while before drowning.

Thanks. The armour is munition grade, tweaked enough it fits fairly well when I'm dry. However, when I got wet it got pretty loose, and some of the leather started stretching as well. While thinking back on it more, the biggest issue is not only the weight, but also one's center of gravity. If someone practiced in it, they would be able to swim, I don't doubt it. For how long, I don't know. Treading water in full plate is out of the question I think, no matter how strong you are, at least not in the arms I was wearing. I would like to try it in an earlier style arm, early 15th or so, and see if that frees up some arm movement.

The armour is relatively cleaned now, I'll be replacing all the leather and buckles though. Not that they were damaged, but rather I was looking for an excuse.

I would love to do this again though, in a river with the divers, and see how the current effects the test. It's also been commented on the lack of helm which would change the center of gravity even more, and would have an effect.

I think it's valuable to do practical tests in all things. Thanks for watching and for your comments.

One of the oddities I observed when wearing mail is when I went from the deck of the longship to the elevated quarterdeck o f the Maryland Dove. Not as noticeable on the longship, but up on the Dove I noted that my balance was definitely effected. I felt considerably more top-heavy and less sure of my footing.

Of course the Dove is a 17th century design, but I would note that as soon as you started building stern and forecastles you would have the effect. It must have been really fun for the archers depicted at the mastheads in some of the manuscripts, especially on the way up. Vessels, even in calm waters, are moving six ways at once: roll, pitch, yaw, heave, surge, and sway. It's usually one hand for you, and one for the ship, and "getting your sea legs" has more to do than with just your stomach.

Of course, the more imbalanced you are, the more likely you are to observe your ability to swim in armor.

I remember about 20-mumble years ago in Trimaris -- after a hot, summertime coronet tourney, walking back to camp, Duke Merowald walked over to the pool's edge (we were at a camp ground) and just... stepped off.

He walked across the bottom of the pool (well, lurched, really) and climbed out the shallow end, going "ahhhhhh!" as he did, and continued on to his campsite much cooler and wetter.

He was one of the few people who wore full mail back in the day.

Yipes!

'Bout the closest I've ever come to that is a deep river fording with rucksack and full combat load. Not fun in the modern gear, either.