Hooked fasteners in the 14th C

[Mac]

The book about the Pritzwalk hoard http://www.foederales-programm.de/smb/p ... r-schmuck/ shows hundreds of fancy hooked fasteners from several 14th century hoards. There are several distinct types, and they range in size from around 9mm to 68mm. Each consist of a matched pair of decorative elements which hook directly to each other. Typically, one has a hook, and the other loop. Frequently, the hook is covered with a central element to obscure the mechanism from view. For example, a mirror imaged pair of rampant lions might have a shield between them; or a pair of trefoils might be joined by a flower.



Here are some links to more images.

http://billyandcharlie.com/hooks/41.jpg
http://billyandcharlie.com/hooks/6.jpg
Here is a link to the only example of hooked fasteners in use that is shown in the book.
http://billyandcharlie.com/hooks/Synagogue.jpg

We at Billy and Charlie's are very exited about offering a line of hooks like this in pewter, but we have to be able to tell people how they were used in period. The problem is that I can't find examples of them in contemporary art.

Does anyone know of examples of decorative fasteners of this sort in art?

Mac

(edited to include picture links)

[PartsAndTechnical]

I am not a clothing expert however I dont recall seeing them.

When are you dating these Mac?

And on what types of garments?

[Mac]

The ones shown above are from the Pritzwalk silver hoard, and are believed to have been hidden away after 1392, but probably not much later. The book also shows ones from earlier 14th C hoards.

I don't know what sort of garment they are supposed to go on....that's my problem.

It is tempting to think that the big ones were cloak clasps, but the only 14th C cloaks I can think of are either buttoned, or else the clasps include a length of chain or cord.

Mac

[PartsAndTechnical]

Yeah I was thinking cloaks or finer hoods too.

Do you have sizes? This might help.

[Mac]

The one with the lions and the fleur is about 78mm (3") tall and the whole thing is is about 145mm wide (5 3/4")

The medium sized ones, (which are quite numerous) are about 17mm (5/8") tall and would be about 45mm (1 3/4") wide when assembled.

There are also small ones which are more like 9mm (3/8") by 28mm (1 1/8") wide.

But these are generalizations. The medium and small ones don't fall into neat groups.

Mac

[PartsAndTechnical]

I guess an examination of the backsides would help a lot. It might tell you how strong they were.

Cloaks can generate a lot of pull and weight when getting all historically melodramatic.

[PartsAndTechnical]

Mac...have you seen this, posted in my houppy collar thread

http://www.amazon.com/Hooked-Clasps-Eye ... 0953245055

[Mac]

Yes, I have that book. The pics are good, but the text is not. As a sort of game, see if you can identify the fakes in the author's collection.

Mac

[Mac]

I guess an examination of the backsides would help a lot. It might tell you how strong they were.

Cloaks can generate a lot of pull and weight when getting all historically melodramatic.

The typical construction is this...
--there is a bossed up silver sheet forming the face
--a plane silver sheet is soldered on to form a back
--the hooks and loops are made of wire which has been flattened where
it is to be soldered to the back.
--the central element is constructed in the same way, and soldered to the hook.

Here are a couple of pics to illustrate typical construction.






All in all, they look pretty strong. The bigger ones have proportionally heavier wire for the hooks and loops.

Mac

(edited to add pics)

[PartsAndTechnical]

Yes, I have that book. The pics are good, but the text is not. As a sort of game, see if you can identify the fakes in the author's collection.

Mac

lol

[PartsAndTechnical]

I guess an examination of the backsides would help a lot. It might tell you how strong they were.

Cloaks can generate a lot of pull and weight when getting all historically melodramatic.

The typical construction is this...
--there is a bossed up silver sheet forming the face
--a plane silver sheet is soldered on to form a back
--the hooks and loops are made of wire which has been flattened where
it is to be soldered to the back.
--the central element is constructed in the same way, and soldered to the hook.

All in all, they look pretty strong. The bigger ones have proportionally heavier wire for the hooks and loops.

Mac

Then it seems like youve solved your own problem Mac. What looks like a fish, smells like a fish....

Ergo I would think these clearly held two sides of material together. The only logical thing I can think of would be capes, cloaks and curtains. (the title to my new book with a special introduction by Carol Burnett recalling Gone with the Wind)

[Galleron]

Simone Martini, Knighting of St. Martin, right hand musician:

http://france.intofineart.com/upload1/f ... 454729.jpg

[Galleron]

And a closer view:

http://www.lib-art.com/artgallery/19495 ... rtini.html

[Galleron]

Here's Crivelli's Mary Magdalene, c. 1487

http://www.rijksmuseum.nl/aria/aria_ass ... 89?lang=en

http://www.artvibrations.com/AVarchive/ ... 577372.jpg

Note that it looks like they're used to close the cuffs of her sleeves as well.

[Mac]

Thank you G! That's the sort of thing we are looking for.

If you go over to our facebook page, you will see that you could be eligible for for a prize! https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie?ref=ts

Mac

[Mac]

We are now running a sort of contest over on our facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie?ref=ts

If you can find us a pic of hooked fasteners in use, and it makes us squee, you get a prize in the form of pewter goods. The size of your prize is based on our level of delight.

Mac

[Galleron]

Another Crivelli Magdalene:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... li_017.jpg

[Galleron]

A close up of Magdalen #2

http://www.artcyclopedia.org/art/carlo- ... dalene.jpg

[Galleron]

Here's a Saint Lucy by Crivelli:

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paint ... saint-lucy

[Galleron]

St. Catherine of Alexandria

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paint ... alexandria

[Mac]

Splendid G! This is excellent. I think the senond Crivelli Magdalin might be laced rather than hooked, but the Stes. Lucy and Catherine are great.

Mac

[Tracy Justus]

Not art examples, but check out RW Lightbown, Mediaeval European Jewellery, p298-302. I'll look for pics later in the week when I get a chance.

T.

[PartsAndTechnical]

Im confused.

Is a "squee" the sound that the clasps make when they hook together?


I want my clasp to contact the Enterprise when I tap it. I dont get this squee sound.

[Mac]

Tracy,

Thanks for the heads-up on Lightbown. I've made some sketches in my notebook for the leafy clasp on page 300 a couple of years ago. Now, thanks to the Pritzwalker book, I've got a much better idea about how this sort of clasp is supposed to look on the underside. We may well be offering a clasp like that one this year at Pennsic....perhaps some other ones as well.

Good luck in the picture hunting!

Mac