Saw a two-part NOVA on Vikings last night on PBS -- it was so cool! Apparently Vikings are the original "Rus" in Russia, as well as having founded Dublin, Ireland!! I had no idea!
Anyway, being of Viking and Ukrainian descent, I was thinking I would like to do an SCA persona based on that notion -- a Viking woman, probably a trader (or wife thereof) who had settled in early Kiev. But I have no idea where to start. Can anyone recommend a good source?
And did anyone else see the Nova?
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Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
Did you guys see the Nova about Vikings?
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Reverend Jan
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Seamus
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Yup, I saw it too... though I don't believe the Vikings -founded- Dublin, only helped make it such a large trade centre.
It was an amazing documentary. Focused heavily on the longships whcih was VERY interesting. I was quite impressed with the whole thing, but especialy with the re-enactment scenes which seemed to me to be fairly accurate in terms of armour.
-Seamus
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Formerly Acdntlpoet
The WaywardCelt
It was an amazing documentary. Focused heavily on the longships whcih was VERY interesting. I was quite impressed with the whole thing, but especialy with the re-enactment scenes which seemed to me to be fairly accurate in terms of armour.
-Seamus
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Formerly Acdntlpoet
The WaywardCelt
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Norman
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Rev Jan,
The Russian ethno-culture is actually a blending of Viking, Turkic, and Slav ethno-culture.
(Russian historians will get into fistfights about exactly what influence each of the above three cultures had)
Big thumbs up on early Rus personna!
(now go and join "the Red Kaganate"!)
When you say "being of Viking and Ukranian descent" - what do you mean?
As I understand, contrary to what Ukranian nationalists may say, when there were Vikings - there were no Ukranians --
ie: back in the day - Kiev was the ruling city of Rus, today it is among the chief cities of the Ukraine ... I think "the Rus" included Ukrainians as well as Russians.
For info -
A good start would be the "Russian Primary Chronicle" ("Povest Vremenikh Let" - the name better translated as "Tale of Olden Years") - it's a history written in (I think) the late 12th cent. by a Russian monk.
(from the begining of the world to his time)
In that same literary vein -- if you can, look for Byliny (this is the legendary history of the Rus -- kinda Kiev as Camelot). One of these days, I'm putting out an English retelling, meanwhile, you'll find one story at "the Red Kaganate" page on "Legends".
Another place is - go to "The Red Kaganate" (web address in my sig).
Look at "Historic Tribes" and find stuff that relates to Russia (one thing off the top of my head is "Timeline of the Russo-Polovetz wars")
Look at the "Research Links" page for appropriate links.
Visit the "Public Forum" and wade through the discussions about the Khazars --
part of that discussion is some conversations about the question of the origin of Kiev.
Go to my armour sites for info on armour.
When you've started getting beyond the info "the Red Kaganate" provides, return the favor by writing articles for "the Red Kaganate".
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Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)
The Russian ethno-culture is actually a blending of Viking, Turkic, and Slav ethno-culture.
(Russian historians will get into fistfights about exactly what influence each of the above three cultures had)
Big thumbs up on early Rus personna!
(now go and join "the Red Kaganate"!)
When you say "being of Viking and Ukranian descent" - what do you mean?
As I understand, contrary to what Ukranian nationalists may say, when there were Vikings - there were no Ukranians --
ie: back in the day - Kiev was the ruling city of Rus, today it is among the chief cities of the Ukraine ... I think "the Rus" included Ukrainians as well as Russians.
For info -
A good start would be the "Russian Primary Chronicle" ("Povest Vremenikh Let" - the name better translated as "Tale of Olden Years") - it's a history written in (I think) the late 12th cent. by a Russian monk.
(from the begining of the world to his time)
In that same literary vein -- if you can, look for Byliny (this is the legendary history of the Rus -- kinda Kiev as Camelot). One of these days, I'm putting out an English retelling, meanwhile, you'll find one story at "the Red Kaganate" page on "Legends".
Another place is - go to "The Red Kaganate" (web address in my sig).
Look at "Historic Tribes" and find stuff that relates to Russia (one thing off the top of my head is "Timeline of the Russo-Polovetz wars")
Look at the "Research Links" page for appropriate links.
Visit the "Public Forum" and wade through the discussions about the Khazars --
part of that discussion is some conversations about the question of the origin of Kiev.
Go to my armour sites for info on armour.
When you've started getting beyond the info "the Red Kaganate" provides, return the favor by writing articles for "the Red Kaganate".
------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)
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Reverend Jan
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Wow, thanks, Norman! What a treasure trove!
As for descent, well, that's pretty recent. We have a Danish Lars Peter Nielsen about 5 generations back on my father's side, and a Zelter from the Ukraine about 3 generations back on my mom's. I'm afraid I don't know too much about the geneology, certainly not as much as I'd like, but suffice it to say, it seems to be within the recent past. Presumably, back in the day, people stayed near their ancestral homes more often, so I am assuming these folks go back a ways in their respective homelands... but it's just a guess.
Thanks much for the references -- must to visit the library (and probably ILL) this weekend!
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Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
As for descent, well, that's pretty recent. We have a Danish Lars Peter Nielsen about 5 generations back on my father's side, and a Zelter from the Ukraine about 3 generations back on my mom's. I'm afraid I don't know too much about the geneology, certainly not as much as I'd like, but suffice it to say, it seems to be within the recent past. Presumably, back in the day, people stayed near their ancestral homes more often, so I am assuming these folks go back a ways in their respective homelands... but it's just a guess.
Thanks much for the references -- must to visit the library (and probably ILL) this weekend!
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Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
Oh.. btw.. the idea that there was a Viking group called "Rus" has been debunked fairly severely.
Not to say that the Vikings did not have an influence in Kievian Russia, they most certainly did (alhtough, as Norman said, historians get really passionate about how much influence that was).
You might also find the New Varangian Guard site interesting (it's a reencatment club in AU, the do Russian Vikings). Don't have the URL handy, just do a web search and you'll find them.
Not to say that the Vikings did not have an influence in Kievian Russia, they most certainly did (alhtough, as Norman said, historians get really passionate about how much influence that was).
You might also find the New Varangian Guard site interesting (it's a reencatment club in AU, the do Russian Vikings). Don't have the URL handy, just do a web search and you'll find them.
Interesting--on the Nova wesite, it's not scheduled for original broadcast until May 9. Lucky bastard. 
Nova website on the episode: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/vikings/
[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited 03-01-2001).]
Nova website on the episode: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/vikings/
[This message has been edited by Jaeger (edited 03-01-2001).]
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Patrick
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I work for a PBS station and my comments are actually about PBS programming in general, not the content of this episode of NOVA.
The Viking NOVA originally aired close to a year ago. There was not a new satellite feed of the program recently, which means that the stations that showed it were actually airing off videotape that they had kept since the last feed. PBS give stations a certain number of airtimes per show within a certain number of years. Usually 4 airings in 3 years or something like that. Sometimes unlimited broadcast rights for a limited time.
Anyway, if you want to see this NOVA again, call your local PBS station and request it. But wait 3 weeks. Begfest is coming up and everyone is pretty stressed right now.
And the Trebuchets show was Secrets of Lost Empires #101. (There are 4 episodes total, 101 through 104.) You can also let your programming director know that you would love to see that series again.
PBS programmers actually do usually listen to what you have to say, but they may not still have tapes. And getting new copies can cost a lot. If you want a consumer VHS, try to find out the episode number for that NOVA and call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. Sorry, I don't have the number at hand.
-Patrick
The Viking NOVA originally aired close to a year ago. There was not a new satellite feed of the program recently, which means that the stations that showed it were actually airing off videotape that they had kept since the last feed. PBS give stations a certain number of airtimes per show within a certain number of years. Usually 4 airings in 3 years or something like that. Sometimes unlimited broadcast rights for a limited time.
Anyway, if you want to see this NOVA again, call your local PBS station and request it. But wait 3 weeks. Begfest is coming up and everyone is pretty stressed right now.
And the Trebuchets show was Secrets of Lost Empires #101. (There are 4 episodes total, 101 through 104.) You can also let your programming director know that you would love to see that series again.
PBS programmers actually do usually listen to what you have to say, but they may not still have tapes. And getting new copies can cost a lot. If you want a consumer VHS, try to find out the episode number for that NOVA and call 1-800-PLAY-PBS. Sorry, I don't have the number at hand.
-Patrick
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Norman
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Rev Jan:
Wow, thanks, Norman! What a treasure trove!
Just remember to return the favor.
Dmitry:
the idea that there was a Viking group called "Rus" has been debunked fairly severely.
I didn't even know there was such an idea.
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Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)
Wow, thanks, Norman! What a treasure trove!
Just remember to return the favor.
Dmitry:
the idea that there was a Viking group called "Rus" has been debunked fairly severely.
I didn't even know there was such an idea.
------------------
Norman J. Finkelshteyn
Armour of the Silk Road - http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/3505
The Silk Road Designs Armoury - http://www.enteract.com/~silkroad
Jewish Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/jewishwarriors
The Red Kaganate - http://www.geocities.com/kaganate
silkroad@spam.operamail.com (remove "spam" from e-mail to make it work)
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Le Brassey
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Jan,
Just a caution on Viking women's garb---the current thinking is that the interpretation where the woman wears a long, panel-shaped "apron" front and back is wrong.
Rather that the apron garment was more fitted and flattering. With this theory in mind, you should be able to find recent reinterpretation of research that supports it, from some of the Viking costuming experts on the web.
Skoal,
Tim
Just a caution on Viking women's garb---the current thinking is that the interpretation where the woman wears a long, panel-shaped "apron" front and back is wrong.
Rather that the apron garment was more fitted and flattering. With this theory in mind, you should be able to find recent reinterpretation of research that supports it, from some of the Viking costuming experts on the web.
Skoal,
Tim
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Reverend Jan
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La Brassey, thanks for the heads-up -- I had never been too keen on the apron dress as I'd seen it. Definitely prefer something more fitted.
Patrick, our station (WENH) is constantly re-airing older stuff on tape -- fine for us, since we usually miss it the first time. Of course, this gets annoying when it's the only station we get, and we've already seen what they're playing 2-3 times!
Dmitriy et al -- thanks for the website suggestions! Gotta go make a new folder for them all!
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Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
Patrick, our station (WENH) is constantly re-airing older stuff on tape -- fine for us, since we usually miss it the first time. Of course, this gets annoying when it's the only station we get, and we've already seen what they're playing 2-3 times!
Dmitriy et al -- thanks for the website suggestions! Gotta go make a new folder for them all!
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Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.