I have two books in a series by Lilliane and Fred Funken (I know, I laugh every time I say it too). Apparently they did at least three books on armor from the "age of Chivalry" as they put it; basically these cover the time between about 600 and 1600. It's no wonder then that I bought them so readily, especially considering that I found them at a flea market.
But here's the meat of the post: I've seen the word hauberk tossed around an awful lot recently, and according to their books, that word is a misnomer. They assert that hauberk is a concatenation (and possible French bastardization) of the German words hals and bergen, meaning that it's a neck protection. The example that they give in their books is something of a bishop's mantle arrangement.
They then go on to state that the correct, authentic term for the armor commonly referred to as a hauberk is a haubergeon.
Questions? Comments? Requests that I shut the hell up?
HELMUT
Why call it a hauberk?
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Rev. George
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not being nitpicky, just curious,
is there any historic accounts of the seemingly modern (to me anyway)use of byrnie, haubergon and hauberk, in reference to the physical size/length/design of the garment or does that use of the terms fall into the same boat as spangenhelms and knee cops?
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Michael J
TIGger extraordinaire
is there any historic accounts of the seemingly modern (to me anyway)use of byrnie, haubergon and hauberk, in reference to the physical size/length/design of the garment or does that use of the terms fall into the same boat as spangenhelms and knee cops?
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Michael J
TIGger extraordinaire
I have these books, too. "Arms and Uniforms: The Age of Chivalry". The authors seem to draw heavily from the work of Viollet-le-duc, Meyrick and others, whose ideas are now considered dated. They have a handful of other kooky notions as well. I'd take anything I learned out of those books with a grain of salt...
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Liebaart
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It is correct that the Germanic word is Halsbergen or Halsbërc (or in Dutch Halsberg or Halsberch).
Originally meaning protection for the neck, it quickly became the name for the whole maille garment, not only the neck anymore.
The word was taken over in Latin languages : usberga, urbergo; prov. ausberc, ausberg; old french: halberc, hauberc; french: haubert, haubergeon
All words have the same origin and also mean the same thing. Some scholars apparently tried to diversify and put different names on different lengths, but that's old practice not normally followed anymore today.
As you know, much of the English language was strongly influenced by the French. Thus the English picked up the word Hauberk from the old french Hauberc.
You can use any word you like. Everybody should know what you are talking about.
Joris
www.liebaart.be.tf
Originally meaning protection for the neck, it quickly became the name for the whole maille garment, not only the neck anymore.
The word was taken over in Latin languages : usberga, urbergo; prov. ausberc, ausberg; old french: halberc, hauberc; french: haubert, haubergeon
All words have the same origin and also mean the same thing. Some scholars apparently tried to diversify and put different names on different lengths, but that's old practice not normally followed anymore today.
As you know, much of the English language was strongly influenced by the French. Thus the English picked up the word Hauberk from the old french Hauberc.
You can use any word you like. Everybody should know what you are talking about.
Joris
www.liebaart.be.tf
Wow, thanks a lot Joris...
And I agree with Joaquin that the information should be suspect. The authors are very careful in many places to add words like "conjectural" and "purely hypothetical" though.
If you all can find them, I'd suggest getting them, if for no other reason than for the fact that there are a lot of reconstructed drawings (the whole series is artwork, but you get to see their ideas of how incomplete or partial pieces would have looked). They also have information, which would seem to be pretty good, on castles and basic heraldry as well.
HELMUT
And I agree with Joaquin that the information should be suspect. The authors are very careful in many places to add words like "conjectural" and "purely hypothetical" though.
If you all can find them, I'd suggest getting them, if for no other reason than for the fact that there are a lot of reconstructed drawings (the whole series is artwork, but you get to see their ideas of how incomplete or partial pieces would have looked). They also have information, which would seem to be pretty good, on castles and basic heraldry as well.
HELMUT
The words etimology and its usage aren't the same question.
They were the words used in period like Joris said but there does apear to be some difference.
From the Statute of Winchester we see Hauberg(Hauberc) used for horsemen and a Haubgeun(haubgeon) used for foot men. There is also other evidence for some kind of difference between the two terms but I haven't seen any particularly revealing as to what the difference is.
They were the words used in period like Joris said but there does apear to be some difference.
From the Statute of Winchester we see Hauberg(Hauberc) used for horsemen and a Haubgeun(haubgeon) used for foot men. There is also other evidence for some kind of difference between the two terms but I haven't seen any particularly revealing as to what the difference is.