"Eastern armour" or XIX century fencing defence?

sasa · Post by **sasa** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 4:21 am

Here is a thing labelled "Persian armour XVII-XVIII century" from some small museum.

The thing is made - according to witnesses - not from individual links, but from long springs (5 millimeters internal diameter, 1-1,2 millimeter wire).

After discussing it for some time we reached conclusion that the date and attributation are wrong and most probably it is XIX century fencing defence

http://www.geocities.com/sasa1.geo/surv/col.htm

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 10:38 am

Looks like the drape on my parents' fireplace.

Why would it be a fencing defense?
Seems like a simple leather coat would be better.

I think (with no evidence either way) that there is no reason not to think it is some really really crappy Munitions type "maile".
(there's some real crappy stuff in American museums that's made of some type of wire loops or another)

Maybe just a modern thing made to look like maile?
Or a late 19th early 20th cent tourist trinket?

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Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 10:52 am

I've seen references to similarily designed "mail" in Japan. They were still making that type of shirt in the 18th/19th C, if not of that design. Looks like a less "skill intensive" way to make a shirt.

FrauHirsch · Post by **FrauHirsch** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 11:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by sasa:
Here is a thing labelled "Persian armour XVII-XVIII century" from some small museum.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or perhaps its just worn under clothing to protect from assassinations...

They were still making and wearing make in the XVII-XVIII c. I've seen shirts available at antique stores occasionally over the years. Of course never when I could afford one.

Juliana

Patrick Thaden · Post by **Patrick Thaden** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 12:50 pm

Hell, I think it looks cool. What small collection is it from? Patrick

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Patrick Thaden
Thaden Armory
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Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Tue Aug 21, 2001 5:27 pm

Hrm... looks a lot like the national museum in Budapest... least the quiver and the incorrectly strung bow...

the mail shirt looks like it could be legit to me, though the image quality could be better...

Ron · Post by **Ron** » Wed Aug 22, 2001 9:55 pm

The arm guards are called karvashes and were common in Poland and Ottoman Turkey in the 17th century.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Wed Aug 22, 2001 10:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ron:
The arm guards are called karvashes and were common in Poland and Ottoman Turkey in the 17th century.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't remember the Polish name for it, though they do use a Hungarian-derived word for it, rather than the Tatar Kolchuk.

In Hungarian, karvas literally means "arm iron.." a.k.a. vambrace. Karvas can therefore be either the knightly or steppe-style arm defense.

I don't know what word the Turks use.

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Sun Aug 26, 2001 8:29 pm

has anyone thought that the "mythical nobody knows what it really is" term banded maille could have stemmed from something like that?
just a thought that popped into me head

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