The Armour Archive

Hi,

I'm doing some research on Landsknechts and was wondering if anyone has seen either literary evidence or woodcuts that show Landsknechts wearing brigantine? I'm curious because I know that the Spanish wore brigantine a lot in the early 16th century. And yet, I have not read or seen any evidence
that the Landsknecht did. I know it would be very easy to wear brigantine under clothing and so they may not show up in the woodcuts. Any information would be a great help.

Thanks,

Jason

It's fairly common in endland and the scottish lowlads till the end of the 16th, pretty much just c.o.p.s in the shape of a doublet.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jason Grimes:
<B>Hi,

I'm doing some research on Landsknechts and was wondering if anyone has seen either literary evidence or woodcuts that show Landsknechts wearing brigantine? </B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jason, the answer is no. I've been doing Landsknect re-enactment for about 16 yrs and have never seen anything that would indicate a brig. Many wore no metal armor at all and the closest would be that they did wear leather jerkins and heavy wool and lots of layers. Most often we see either full plate or a guy wearing a helm and breast and back, sometimes with faulds and tassets. The Officers and gentlemen would wear 'bases' - called sometimes waffenrock, paltrock, faltenrock, which is a coat with heavy pleated skirt that acts as armor on its own to some degree. If one is made properly it is heavy wool with canvas thickness lining and protective in its own right. Sometimes the coats were worn under, sometimes over a breastplate.

Juliana

Hi All,

I think the Landesknecht cheap armour solution is the "almain rivet", which isn't as comfortable to wear as a brigandine, but provides as much protection to the front of the torso, and would be chaeper and easier to mass produce.

------------------
Bob R.

Thanks everyone for your responces,

FrauHirsch - thanks I was hoping that someone had run across some evidence for either yea or nay.

Chef - That is a good point, if you want to find a good reason, look at economics

Jason

chef

Do you have a picture of an almain rivet? I have not come across this type of armor in my research into the Landsknechts. Thanks.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by flonzy:
<B>chef

Do you have a picture of an almain rivet? I have not come across this type of armor in my research into the Landsknechts. Thanks.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a picture of one such in Edge and Paddock. sorry, I don't have my copy here at work to give you the page number.

------------------
Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

http://www.freecompany.fsnet.co.uk/page9.html
describes the Almain Rivet, but as note, not all Doppelsoldners were required to have everything in all units. There are plenty of examples where they have helm, breast, faults and tassets, no arms or guantlets.

Here is a modern drawing of one on the left:
http://www.landsknecht.com/artwork/woodcuts/wood16.gif

Here are two woodcuts of Officers:
http://mailmaker.tripod.com/armor/wood01.gif
http://mailmaker.tripod.com/armor/wood02.jpg

The above woodcuts are officers based on their weapons, obviously not the common grunt, who often wore no armor whatsoever.

http://members.tripod.com/~mailmaker/armor/halfpics.html shows the finished suit the guy was making off the above woodcuts. Looks good for a generic continental guy, but for Landsknects he would have the arms and legs covered with slashing and usually striped hosen and cowmouthed shoes. I don't thimk the costume part of his armor was complete in these photos.

The best selection of landsknect examples are from:
The German Single-Leaf Woodcut, 1500-1550 by Max Geisberg Our Price: $395.00 Hardcover
(June 1974) Hacker Art Books; ISBN: 0878171258

The multi volume set can be found at University libraries.

The early 16th c armor was often shorter waisted and often more globose in nature than the later peascod breasts in the later 16th c armor.

I've seen some really crappy landsknecht renditions in the SCA using hidden armor and a few that looked pretty decent. It can be done. Illusion armory sells some armor and helms that are decent.

My husband wears basically an Almain rivet over a blue wool velvet waffenrock (that is finally dying after about 13 yrs). He wears a helm replicating a period piece we photographed while in Germany that is a cross between a burgeonette/armet. I don't have a picture of his SCA armor, but a similar coat is in this picture:
http://la.znet.com/~savaskan/germans/images/gerry-5.jpg His armor was made by Steve Moffat.

His persona is an Officer/Knight, though, not a common pikeman.

Juliana

It's on p. 139 of AAotMK, Edge & Paddock. Leather strap articulation, some metal restored.

There is a quite similar munition armour in the City Museum in Oakland, for any of our correspondents who live in the San Francisco Bay Area. This armour is in no wise remarkable, but it is kept on a stand out on the floor of the room relating to the Spanish exploration and mission period. You can walk right up to the armour and fog it with your breath and view it from any angle. There is no headgear with it, and there is some etched decoration.

------------------
"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

Hi All,

he Higgins has a pair of authentic almain rivet arms on display, identical to the ones pictured in AAoMK.

------------------
Bob R.

Chef - you wouldn't happen to have a picture of those splints would you? Also are they more complete then the ones in AAoMK? Thanks,

Jason

Hi Jason,

Nope, I don't have a picture, but I could try to get one next month. I believe that the entire set of splints is authentic - no modern replacement of plates, but I might be wrong.

The old Higgins catalog shows them as part of that horrible "Bashford Deanesque" monstrosity of a suit that JWH had cobbled together for a representation of an "early" suit - the only early thing about it was the klappvisor, cobbled together with a breastplate that might have been a forgery, the almain rivet arms, and early 16th century Italian legs with at least extensive restoration - if not nearly entirely modern (i.e. 1 or 2 original elements of the leg, and the other dozen plates modern = "authentic").

He didn't want to draw attention to the horribly modern arms on his "14th century" armour

------------------
Bob R.