Goths

Jan Du Hadolf · Post by **Jan Du Hadolf** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 12:55 pm

Ok, I typed this up yesterday, it's a compilation of notes from some history. I hope someone gets something out of it.

600-300bc East Germans (Scandinavians) cross the Baltic and push up the Vistula to the Carpathians. They are divided into the Bastarnae, Burgundians, Gepids, Goths, Heruls, Rugians, and the Sciri.

West Germans (Teutons) moving up the Elbe and Rhine rivers. They reach south Germany c. 100bc, and threaten Gaul.

c 214 the East Germans arive at the Black Sea

c 257 The Goths divide into the Visigoths and Ostrogoths.

286 Goths sack Athens, Sparta, and Corinth

c 300 West Germans group into: the Alamanni on the upper Rhine; Franks and Saxons between the Weser and the Elbe, inland to the Harz; and the Thuringians south of the Saxons.

300 Huns invade Europe.

330 Constantinople founded

c 372 the Heruls and Alans are defeated by the Huns; the Ostrogoths Hermanric empire is destroyed and absorbed by the Huns.

376 Huns invade Russia

376 the Visigoths are routed from the lower Dniester river; they are settled in lower Moesia in the Roman Empire.

378 the Visigoths defeat and kill eastern emporor Valens at Adrianople, then ravage Thrace for two years. They are then given Eastern Illyricum.

c 400 by the end of the fourth century, the Salian Franks were settled between the Meuse and the Scheldt, and the Ripuarian Franks were settled between the Rhine and the Meuse

401 the Visigoths under Alaric begin their thrust into Italy
402 are defeated at Pollentia
403 then are halted at Verona, and withdraw to Epirus

406 Gunderic is made king of the Vandals

406 the Rhine frontier is crossed by Vandals, Sueves, Alans, Alani, and Sciri, who went south into Aquitaine

408 emperor Theodosius begins building a great wall to protect Constantinople

409 the Vandals, Sueves, Alans, Alani, and Sciri then went south farther into Spain

410 Roman legions start pulling out of Britain

410 Alaric takes Rome

411 the Burgundians move up the Rhine, then along the Main and settle in upper Burgundy (the lands including Lyons, Vienne, Besancon, Geneva, Autun, and Macon)

412 Alaric dies, and is succeded by his brother Ataulf, who led the Visigoths north, ravaged Etruria, crossed the Alps and started trashing Gaul;
414 he marries;
415 and is forced into Spain, where he is murdered.

415 Ataulf is succeded by Wallia, who
416 clears Spain of other barbarians

418 Franks settle in parts of Gaul

419 Ataulf is given the land between the Loire and the Garonne with Toulouse as the capitol, forming the kingdom of Toulouse

419 Theodoric I is made king of Toulouse

425 Vandals settle in south Spain, the Huns in Pannonia, Ostrogoths in Dalmatia, and the Visigoths and Suevi in Portugal and north Spain

428 Gaiseric made king of the Vandals

429 Vandals under Gaiseric cross from Spain into Africa, founding Vandal kingdom in Africa

430 first siege of Hippo by Vandals; they fail

431 Hippo falls to the Vandals; St. Augustine dies during the siege

433 Attila becomes ruler of the Huns

436 last Roman troups leave Britain

436 the Huns destroy Burgundian kingdom of Worms

439 the Vandals under Gaiseric take Carthage from the Romans, and make it their capitol and naval base

443 the Alammani settle in Alsace

443 Gaiseric takes last Roman possessions in northern Africa, and establishes absolute monarchy

445 Attila attacks Constantinople, but is paid to go away

451 Frankish Chlodio invades Artois, but is beaten back by Aetius

451 Attila sets out with a force of 700,000 men, including Gepids, Ostrogoths, Rugians, Scirians, Heruls, Thuringians, Alans, Burgundians, and Ripuarian Franks. He takes Metz, and ravages the Belgic provinces. Aetius musters 300,000 soldiers, made up of Salian and Ripuarian Franks, Burgundians, Celts, and Visigoths under Theodoric I, besides his own Gallo-Roman soldiers. Attila pulls away from his siege of Orleans to Chalons, where he is defeated. During the battle, Theodoric I is killed. Attila turns down into Italy and ravages Aquileia, but turns back at Rome

453 Attila dies, and his German vassels revolt, led by the Gepids

453 Theororic II made king of Visigoths

454 Attilaâ€™s army is defeated in Pannonia. The Huns settle on the lower Danube, the Gepids form a kingdom on Dacia, and the Ostrogoths settle in Pannonia.

455 Gaisericâ€™s Vandals from Africa take Rome, and pillage it for two weeks

466 Theodoric II murdured by his brother Euric, who is made king of Toulouse, and starts expanding his kingdom

470 Huns withdraw from Europe

471 Theodoric made king of the Ostrogoths, and is given lands in Macedonia

c 475 late 400â€™s simple monasteries founded in Ireland

476 END OF THE WEST ROMAN EMPIRE emperor Romulus Augustulus was killed by Odovacar, a German soldier from his army. The soldiers had become unhappy with their pay, but he had refused to increase their wages.

476 Odovacar named king of Italy; he is a fair ruler

476 eastern Sicily is sold to Theodoric and the Visigoths by Gaiseric, king of the Vandals

481 Childeric I, king of the Salian Franks dies; is succeded by his 15 year old son, Clovis

486 Salian Franks under Clovis defeat the Gallo-Roman general Syagrius (last Roman governor of Gaul) at Soissons, who has the last great Roman army in the west, thereby extending Salian power to the Loire

489 Theodoric arrives in Italy, informally commisioned by the east emperor to clean Odovacar out of Italy. He defeated Odovacar at Aquileia on the Isonzo river, then at Verona, and Odovacar was forced to retreat to Ravenna. Theodoric couldnâ€™t take Ravenna, but lay waste to the surrounding counties. They fought again on the banks of the Adda, where Theodoric was once more victorious. He then
493 lay siege to Ravenna, and this time was sucessful. He stabbed Odovacar himself several days latter at a banquet. He also married Clovisâ€™s sister.

493 Clovis marries Burgundian princess Clothilda

494 Ostrogoths in Malta

496 Ripuarian Franks under Sigebert defeat an Alammanic invasion at Tolbiac with Salian support

496 Clovis Defeats Alammani at Strasburg (near the Seine,) and is made king of the Ripuarian Franks. Soon after he is made king of the Salian Franks also

496 traditional date for the conversion of Clovis to Christianity

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If I'm wined and womened, you can substitute gold for songs- unknown mercenary soldier

Allanon · Post by **Allanon** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 1:43 pm

Acctually i think it was 497 when Clovis was "Converted" to christianity. but the rest is pretty acurate.

What history book was that Jan? that is all very well typed. i would like to get m hands on that book if i could.

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You want power I'll give you power

Jan Du Hadolf · Post by **Jan Du Hadolf** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 9:39 pm

I combined several good books, but I can't remember the titles. I know one was a library discard...

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If I'm wined and womened, you can substitute gold for songs- unknown mercenary soldier

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:50 am

Very nice indeed. Maybe there should be a separate section in the Essays for stuff like this. People often write in asking for background data for arms & armour, combat etc. It would be good if stuff like this was available to them.

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Egfroth

"I can't help it. I was BORN sneering" - Pooh Bah
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Satan · Post by **Satan** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:00 am

So, I noticed that you failed to mention the invention of black fingernail polish in 468 a.d..

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:18 am

I won't mention it if you don't mention the invention of lycra in 1345.

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Egfroth

"I can't help it. I was BORN sneering" - Pooh Bah
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:53 am

Or the fact that they actually WERE importing cheap indian silver jewellery!

It's all too scary.

Sasha

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:23 am

You mean Goths are not pasty depressed people who were to much make up and like black cloths and sometimes are vampires?

Some one had to say it.
Flonzy

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Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.

Jan Du Hadolf · Post by **Jan Du Hadolf** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:46 pm

This isn't all of it, it's just some of the major things. I've got a couple more pages about this same stuff, from the same years, but of less interest, unless your trying to build a caracter and need to know, say, who ruled this county in this year. The finer details. I have them, though, so if anyone needs something like that, just say so.

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If I'm wined and womened, you can substitute gold for songs- unknown mercenary soldier

Olorin · Post by **Olorin** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 10:49 pm

did you study the Goths for a project or something? and what happens after 500 AD? just curious.

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you want life insurance? pay me better!

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Mon Mar 25, 2002 6:25 am

You should read "Count Belisarius" by Robert Graves. The Goths of Italy were destroyed as a political and military power by a long drawn out war with the Byzantines under Belisarius about the middle of the century, in the reign of Justinian the Great. Italy was under Byzantine control for a short time, then lost to an invasion of Lombards (Langobardi = "long-beards") another Germanic tribe, who were eventually subsumed into Charlemagne's Holy Roman Empire about 800 AD.

The Visigoths of Spain were conquered by the Muslim Moors in the 8th century, and lost most of their territory except the north. It took till 1492 for them to completely reconquer the country, by which time the two cultures had been inextricably mixed.

The Vandals, having sacked Rome, went to North Africa where they were hired by a rebellious Roman governor to hlp him gain his independence from the central government. But when they arrived, thy discovered he'd made his peace with Rome, and no longer needed them. So they took over in their own right, with their capital at Carthage. They were conquered in the middle of the 6th century by Belisarius, with a considerably smaller force, and destroyed as a political and military force. Belisarius was a HELL of a general.

The Franks took over Gaul, and became the basis of the Carolingian Empire, and the French and German nations.

The Saxons, Angles and Jutes (according to Bede) were hired as foederates by the Romano-British and took over in their own right, eventually becomng the English nation, which was conquered in 1066 by Bill the Bastard, Duke of Normandy.

The pagan Saxons who stayed behind in Saxony were conquered and forcibly converted to Christianity by Charlemagne in the late 8th century.

Does that help?

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Egfroth

Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Lodhur · Post by **Lodhur** » Sat Mar 30, 2002 12:41 am

Yay!!! Someone who likes Goths!

I think your tribal definitions pre-adrianople are a bit broad, (Greutungi, Cherusci, Boii, Ingveones, etc.) but thats a hecka of a tangled mess to sort out, anyway.

& the term 'visigoth' wasn't really used until the 7th century, I think. As I recall they knew themselves as Tervingi. Or just Goths.

Here's what I want know: What happened to the goti who stayed back around the baltic? Got anything on northeastern germanic tribes during the migrations & vendel periods?

LoÃ°urr Havskjold

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 4:59 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lodhur:
Here's what I want know: What happened to the goti who stayed back around the baltic? Got anything on northeastern germanic tribes during the migrations & vendel periods?

LoÃ°urr Havskjold<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ohh, can of worms, that one. there's been a (quite animated) discussion on the Ansaxnet forum http://www.pastforward.co.uk/vikings/ansaxnet.html about whether the Geats of Beowulf were the same people as the Goths, the Jutes, the Gotlanders etc. So far with no definite conclusions. And perhaps never will be.

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Egfroth

Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Lodhur · Post by **Lodhur** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 10:20 pm

Yes, well, you see my position. Here I am purporting to portray a Goti on the south Baltic coast ca. 615 c.e.

I dread the day I am asked for documentation...

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:51 am

No problem. Call yuorself a Geat, and quote Beowulf as your source. There's a new translation on the Net, by the way, by someone not unknown to us . . .

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Egfroth

Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Lodhur · Post by **Lodhur** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:57 pm

REALLY!? What is the evidence they're using to substantiate?

My gods, that really opens up a whole new world for me.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 3:43 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lodhur:

REALLY!? What is the evidence they're using to substantiate?

My gods, that really opens up a whole new world for me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What, that the Geats lived on the south Baltic coast? Not sure, but I'd always believed from my reading of Beowulf that it was set in that region. But you mght try having a look at the this http://www.jagular.com/beowulf/geats.shtml which puts the Geats in "what is now Sweden", so maybe I'm wrong there. But certainly Scandinavia.

As far as I'm aware, the "Goths" never got as far north as Scandinavia - but the Geats seem to have. As I recall (I wasn't following the argument very caefully) the theory is that the Geats came from somewhere around Southern Russia, and migrated north and west to the Swedish region. Bt I'm really not sure. The home page of the URL I've put here leads to MANY essays on Beowulf and associated subjects, which might be of help.

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Egfroth

Major Bloodnok, Queen's Forty-Third Deserters (retd.) "Do you know what it's like to be in the thick of a bloody battle, with bullets flying and sabres clashing?"
Ned Seagoon: "No."
Bloodnok: "Pity; I was hoping you could tell me . . ."
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos