Arming Clothes?

warclub_33 · Post by **warclub_33** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 9:49 am

From what I have been able to gather from my limited research, there were many, many different names for the garments worn over armour during the 13th-15th centuries. I came across a site selling prepainted 90mm minatures. I don't know how historically accurate these are but one in paticular struck my fancy as a look I really liked. I am posting a link to the page, it's the vigenette about middle ways down the page entitled Agincourt 1415 with CHARLES DUC D'ORLEANS, the guy in the middle is the one I am referring to. http://www.histomin.com/linesdr/pgsdrmedfoot.htm He and I seem to share the same rotund body shape and I like the shapeless over garment he is wearing. What is that called, and what type of helmet does he appear to be wearing?
Thanks for any help.

Edric · Post by **Edric** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 12:07 pm

Wow, those are pretty nice, wonder if I could get my lady to buy me some toy soldiers for my birthday.

The helmet is an early great bascinet. I have a visor on my bascinet similar to this style:

[img]http://www.edricsrose.com/unusedpics/Ravensfort2/fight5.JPG[/img]

Although his looks to protrude out farther. The early great bascinets simply add 2 plates to "hug" the countour of the face and then 2 to protect the neck, pretty much a full plate aventail. These were very common in the early 15th century.

The outer garment looks like a simple loose jupon. These were fairly common in this period also, some getting fancy with flared and dagged arms. Most of the ones I have seen have are worn with a belt however.

------------------
--Edric de Aldebury--
edric@edricsrose.com
http://www.edricsrose.com

Flos est puellarum, quam diligio, et rosa rosarum, quam sepe video.
"My love is a flower among virgins, and a rose among roses"

warclub_33 · Post by **warclub_33** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 6:43 am

Thank you for your help Edric. I get confused with all ther names for the different types of garments. My original thought was that a jupon was quilted, but I cant remember where I read it from. Whatever you call it I like the look, anything that moves away from the wasp waisted hourglass look, I guess there were no fat knights in middle ages, lol.

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 6:44 pm

The garment you're seeing there is depicted like you see it without the belt in several illuminations. It's mostly shown that way to demonstrate clearly what the wearer's heraldic device is. I'm not sure how common it would have been to wear it without the belt.

To some extent you can get the wasp waisted look by padding the hips, and leaving the upper sleves baggy. Take a look at globose breast plates, or the Churburg #13. They cut in toward the waist, which is just a bit below your rib cage. With maile under neath, your belly could give to slow down a blow, but your rib cage can't, so it needs the hard protection more.

The other way the look was achieved was through corsetting. The great Burgundian knight Charny chided young knights from wearing their armour (and other clothes) too tight for the fassion value of it, so that they couldn't breathe.
Regards,
Gaston

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Mon Apr 08, 2002 11:15 pm

It was VERY common to wear these loose fitting surcoats unbelted. I've seen tons of documentation supporting this. I agree with the "helps display the arms better" argument.

warclub_33 · Post by **warclub_33** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:02 pm

Thanks everybody for your help. My last question is, would this look be appropriate for the early to mid 14th century?

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:12 pm

Sorry, no it wouldn't be approptiate for early to mid 14th century. It would be more appropriate for circa 1375-1450.

For early to mid 14th century, there were surcoats, some looser fitting than others, but all I can think of off hand were belted.

Hope this helps!