greathelm shaping

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Mon May 06, 2002 10:17 pm

A number of the greathelm posts recently reminded me of a question I've had for a while. I was originally going to post this under the MacPherson helm thread, but I dont want to sound like I'm detracting from his work.

Just curious; Are there historic examples of great helms with the nasel bar jutting out like this? More often in reproductions I see the face plate out further, in a frogmouth style. This forces the nasel to come straight back. Is there documentation for this style? Frogmouth style helms don't seem to generally have that nasel.

The Pembridge helm, for example, looks like the nasel was forge welded on because of how it sits relative to the raised oculars. Inspection from the inside may show otherwise, however.

These dont have the same flow as the historic helms (that is, if you consider greathelms to have any artistic shape). Of course, they had some odd helms too, but it's such a relatively easy helm that most armourers that make them modernly are fairly new instead of masters.

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SCA: Edric of Scardeburc
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/jselmer/

"Those who look upon a collection of Ancient Armour as a mere assemblage of curiosities have formed a very inadequate idea of its purpose and usefulness."
J. Hewitt
Catalogue of the Tower Armouries, 1859

Raymund · Post by **Raymund** » Tue May 07, 2002 4:04 am

On many SCA great helms the faceplate is moved out a bit for safety reasons, so that your nose and face doesn't touch the faceplate so easily.

I can't recall any historical helm with this type of faceplate, and I think it destroys the "elegancy" of a great helm.

/R

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Tue May 07, 2002 7:11 am

Having made several of these, and assuming you are talking about the shape where the faceplate has a point, or it sticks out noticably farther than the plate above it....

I think that it is normally just an error in making the pattern for the parts.

All of the real greathelms have eyeslots where the top and bottom plates are basically lined up. This allows the little center bar to run vertically and then bend over the upper plate.

There is no reason to stick the faceplate farther out for safety - unless the top half of the helm is not built correctly. It should extend out (that is why they have a slope) to allow enough room for the face. The faceplate than hangs straight down from it.

Wade

SyrRhys · Post by **SyrRhys** » Tue May 07, 2002 8:36 am

I'm not sure what you're seeing, but the shape of the Helms Mac makes are just like the real thing; the only real differences are the wide occularium and the fact that he made them out of 5 plates instead of 3. If you see a different shape you need to go back and look again.

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Hugh Knight
"Welcome to the Church of the Open Field, let us 'prey': Hunt hard, kill swiftly, waste nothing, make no apologies"

Langdon · Post by **Langdon** » Wed May 08, 2002 3:08 pm

What I think Jacob was talking about is the shape of just the strap between the occulars. From the side view it does appear to bend outward from the bottom faceplate then bend back to rivet into the top front panel. I am not sure if it was the photo or just a feature of that particular piece.

Langdon