needing authentic helmet ideas

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:14 pm

Hi, I'm looking for an authentic helmet between 1200 and 1300 that would be acceptable to sca style combat and I'm not too keen on the flat top great helm. I'm looking for something more period then bargrill as well. Anyone got ideas? thanks all!

------------------
I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

[This message has been edited by Dale Beatty (edited 05-06-2002).]

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:38 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dale Beatty:
Hi, I'm looking for an authentic helmet pre 1300 that would be acceptable to sca style combat and I'm not too keen on the flat top great helm. I'm looking for something more period then bargrill as well. Anyone got ideas? thanks all!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How far pre 1300? What about the Sutton Hoo helmet? It's at http://web.missouri.edu/~rls555/RUSH/sutton_hoo.htm - it's 7th century Anglian and has a full faceplate and neck and cheekguards. But you'd have to make the rest of your gear fit with it.

There are also Russian helmets that have faces on them from the right period. Check out the Red Kaganate at http://www.geocities.com/kaganate/helmDB/

There's also "transitional" helmets from Western Europe from about 1200, where conical and other hlmets had developed faceplates, but barrel helms hadn't yet been developed. You could probably best get these from some of the Primary Source pictures from Osprey books on the Crusades, or from Arms and Armour of the Mediaeval Knight by Edge and Paddock

Good luck with it, and please, PLEASE consider making the rest of your kit fit with the helmet.

------------------
Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Mon May 06, 2002 9:46 pm

fear not...i'm not asking for a period correct helm only to make the rest out of blue plastic. I have every intention of making my armour fit my persona. I've read just about every topic posted on this board and I've decided I like the idea of period harnesses better then sport armour. I also decided that this is my decision and I'm in no place to make it someone elses.

------------------
I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:24 am

Well, what culture are you talking about? Does it matter to you? (I can get you a great 13th C. Japanese helmet...

)

Effingham

Dale Beatty · Post by **Dale Beatty** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:39 am

Good point. culture would help wouldn't it? Western European....Scottish to be precise.

------------------
I never choose lover or fighter, it eliminates options

Uryen · Post by **Uryen** » Tue May 07, 2002 3:45 am

heres one ive been thinking of making for sca, c1200- 1250.
[img]http://home.kooee.com.au/uryen/armour/1250helm.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Uryen (edited 05-07-2002).]

Raymund · Post by **Raymund** » Tue May 07, 2002 4:14 am

For that time-period the only alternative to a great helm is a kettlehelm. Although for the late century a roundtopped great helm is a possibility too. See http://www.liebaart.yucom.be/helm/ and http://www.tempus-vivit.net/tempus-vivit/bibliothek/ruestungen/topfhelm/index.html for different types of great helms.

The kettlehelm is open-faced, but there are so few of them so I woudn't mind a bargrilled one. Armourworks makes a nice one, see http://www.armourworks.com/kettle_helm.htm

/R

[This message has been edited by Raymund (edited 05-07-2002).]

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Tue May 07, 2002 7:53 am

There are other options from the great and kettle helms, but they're mostly (or all) flat topped or open faced. A simple skull cap with or without nasel was still common. The style Uryen shows looks to have a flat top in most of the period depictions I've seen. I really like that style though, and I made one recently with the back left open.

I dont have any Scottish-specific references. They tend to be behind the times from what's new/popular in the western continent.

Ld. Ondart de Clermont · Wed May 08, 2002 1:53 am

If you can find a copy, check out David Nicolle's "Arms & Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350." It contains literally hundreds of line drawings Mr. Nicolle has made from period sources. It contains a wealth of information concerning every facet of armour for your time period. Also, the armour is listed by region and period and makes research really easy. While Osprey puts out some nice books, some of their artist's "conceptual" drawings leave much to be desired BUT they DO provide good source material for you to look up for your own research. Hope this helps!

------------------
Ld. Ondart de Clermont
Squire to Ivar Rhidri Eithr Drenger
Haus Kriegsturm
Barony of Sternfeld
Middle Kingdom
House Kriegsturm Message Board
House Kriegsturm Home Page

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Wed May 08, 2002 9:57 pm

I've just realized that in my first post I mis-read the time period wanted, so my reply didn't make all that much sense. However, if you're prepared to stick pretty close to 1200 (say not later than about 1210) you have a lot of options.

Uryen's design is pretty much spot on, and though flat-topped was ONE of the options at the time, you could also go round-topped, conical, or even Phrygian (smurf) helmet! Not to mention the wierd ones that start out going up as a cylinder, then have a sort of hemispherical top, which is, I think, what Uryen's design depicts. VERY silly.

------------------
Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

Bob H · Post by **Bob H** » Thu May 09, 2002 9:59 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ld. Ondart de Clermont:
If you can find a copy, check out David Nicolle's "Arms & Armour of the Crusading Era 1050-1350."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I strongly second that recommendation, as well as Ld. Ondart's suggestion of the Osprey books as a good pointer to research resources. If you are portraying a Western European from the period and more particularly a Crusader sort, I think you'll enjoy Osprey's "Knight of Outremer", also by David Nicolle.

Sixtus_Goetz · Post by **Sixtus_Goetz** » Sun May 19, 2002 1:38 pm

You could try looking into a Sugarloaf helm, they < according to my reasearch > were in place untill 1280ish. I'd imagine a little longer then that also concidering helm's at times passed down from generation to generation < unless they had a huge cleave in them >. But this is just my 2p.

Saranac Goetz

------------------
Steal everything that's not nailed down. If we can pry it up, it't not nailed down.

Bartok · Post by **Bartok** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:06 pm

I found what appear to be knights in Sugarloaf helms in The Romance of Alexander 1338 to 1344ish... Afraid I don't have a link to show everyone though

Bartok