Plaque (sp?) Belts - 2 Part Question

Lord William Avery · Post by **Lord William Avery** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 12:30 am

First a little persona history. I am English and in my version of reality it is 1402 c.e. Secondly, during this time did one wear a plaque belt (sp?) and another belt to carry sword/dagger, was it one or the other or both? I've looked at what brass rubbings I have in books that depict the era, but I know that is not the most accurate representation of what was happening at the time.

Lastley - SCA Question, has anyone fought with a plaque belt (sp?) on? Are they easily damaged? Do they get in the way? Have I asked enough questions?

Thanks so much!

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Data Fata Secitus

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 6:17 am

There are no finds of sword hangers for plaque belts. But, in effigies the sword does hang from the plaque belt and it hangs uncannily vertically, almost as if there were a rigid or hinged attachment. The plaque belts on armored men also seems to be unnaturally horizontal, so my guess is that it was actually attached to a fauld.

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 1:23 pm

Brian Price fights in a plaque belt, and it doesn't seem to get in his way. They're generally pretty substantial affairs, so they should be pretty resilient to damage.
There's a good example of a plaque belt with a separate little belt that might be a sword hangar on a Burgundian statue from the 1390s. He also wears a belt up around his natural waist. All three belts are over a fabric covering, so they're probably not anchored to a fauld in this example, though the plaque belt may have acted at least in part AS the fauld. I get the impression that the weight of the plaque belt helped to keep the harness from shifting around too much. Since they were generally ornate and not strictly necessary they might have also acted as good ready cash during a campaign when you had to ransom your retinue back.

What were you planning on making your belt out of?
Gaston de Clermont

Munz · Post by **Munz** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 1:55 pm

As to how sturdy they are depends on how sturdy it has been constructed! If the plaques are cast and solid with a good device to attach it to the belt leather, then it should be fine. If the plaques are hollow, ie. have been stamped into the metal, then they will have a tendency to flatten out when hit. I wear a plaque belt from Anshelm Arms and it will stand up to anything. As far as I know there are no extant plaque belts. All we can do is speculate on how they were attached and how weapons were secured to them. I have heard the reference to "ransom" before, Clermont, can you provide a good source for that. I have only heard it referenced in conversation and would love to see a good piece of documentation for it.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 2:35 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jeff J:
But, in effigies the sword does hang from the plaque belt and it hangs uncannily vertically, almost as if there were a rigid or hinged attachment.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is much simpler for the artisan to construct them that way, it takes up less room. If it was a stone carving, or bronze casting, the parts would be far more likely to be broken off if they stuck out from the main body.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Jul 17, 2002 4:38 pm

Oakeshott's AoW, plate 13 shows just such a plaque-belt sword hanger, giving a 14th-c. date, with fifteenth-century silver-gilt filigree roundels later applied. His description of the article indicates his confidence in having accurately identified it, citing wear on the hook as being precisely consonant with a scabbard-ring riding in it.

The hanger is not terribly long; it would cause a scabbard to ride close to the belt, rather than independently of it when slung with the narrow sword belts of the 15th century.

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"The Minstrel Boy to the war is gone..."

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:14 pm

I'd love to say otherwise, but I don't have hard proof of using plaque belts as ransom. There's reference to the practice of paying close retainers for saving your butt in sources like King Renee's tournament treatise.
Gaston de Clermont