Mac Bible - Other Illuminations and Effigies

Syrus Leigh · Post by **Syrus Leigh** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:16 pm

Not too long ago somebody here (perhaps Syr Rhys?) posted a link to the Mac Bible, in reply to a post concerning whether the padded gambeson was worn over or under maille. By backspacing the adress bar link, I came to the main index and was able to look at all of the illuminations in turn.
I was there, actualy, for a few hours.
Now, I'm not only looking for that link again (didn't save it), but also pages concerning other illuminations of the time, and, if possible, effigies. When possible, I try to work anything I contsruct directly from period illuminations and effigies, coupled with opinions and research.
I am, however, dangerously low on illuminations and effigies. Any help?

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Aye, lads & lasses.

warclub_33 · Post by **warclub_33** » Tue Jul 30, 2002 5:58 pm

http://www.medievaltymes.com/courtyard/maciejowski_bible.htm

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 1:32 am

How close to circa 1250 are you looking to be? Are you looking for English, French, Italian, etc.? Are you looking for specific items such as gambesons, or for a geeral overview? And, finally, are you looking for depictions of nobles or footsoldiers?

Time and place, sir. Help me help you.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 7:02 am

Also look at http://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/cgi-bin/Ee.3.59/bytext - and http://www.callisto.si.usherb.ca/~croisade/IMAGES/Webimages.htm also has a lot of info, though you have to be fairly careful to look at the dates of the documents in this one - you're looking for "XIIIe siÃ¨cle" - thirteenth century. There's another site also with pictures from the Mac Bible, http://www.keesn.nl/mac/mac_en.htm though I don't know whether there's any extra not on the other site.

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Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

[This message has been edited by Egfroth (edited 07-31-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Egfroth (edited 07-31-2002).]

Syrus Leigh · Post by **Syrus Leigh** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 4:30 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ernst:
How close to circa 1250 are you looking to be? Are you looking for English, French, Italian, etc.? Are you looking for specific items such as gambesons, or for a geeral overview? And, finally, are you looking for depictions of nobles or footsoldiers?

Time and place, sir. Help me help you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mainly NW Europe. 12-14th century is great, and mid-late 14th century and mid 13th is excllent.

And thanks, Egfroth.

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Aye, lads & lasses.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:15 pm

Happy to help. That last site, by the way, also has links to the Manasse Codex, of a similar date, from Germany. Worth a look as well. Some good stuff there.

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Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

jgalak · Post by **jgalak** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 11:09 am

Did any of you guys look at this link (from the same site):

http://www.kb.nl/kb/manuscripts/

Wow! This is incredible!

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Yehuda ben Moshe
mka Juliean Galak
http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/medieval/armor/

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Thu Aug 01, 2002 3:11 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Egfroth:
Also look at ... http://www.callisto.si.usherb.ca/~croisade/IMAGES/Webimages.htm also has a lot of info, though you have to be fairly careful to look at the dates of the documents in this one - you're looking for "XIIIe siÃ¨cle" - thirteenth century.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is a good link, and there are some great resources, but they deserve a further note of caution. Some of the images were painted well after the actual event, so the dates can still be misleading. "Saint Louis dÃ©barquant Ã Damiette" is a good example. In the image there are guys wearing sallets and there's even a hand gunner. These are things which were created around 200 years after St. Louis died. This is still a great 15th century image. The section entitled "Images modernes des croisades" contains modern images of the crusades. (Sorry if that's pointing out the blindingly obvious)
Gaston de Clermont

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:28 am

I don't know that you were able to narrow things down much--a 150 year span with a 50 year block taken out of the middle. ~:-/

Particularly at the KB for mid-1200s is the Kristina Psalter:

http://www.kb.dk/elib/mss/mdr/gks1606/index-en.htm

Folio 14 recto, a "Massacre of the Innocents", has some armor depictions, but like most online manuscripts, you wade through a lot to find thse few examples.

For mid- to late 14th century, the Charles V site at the BNF is good, especially the miniatures from the Grand Chronique de France:

http://www.bnf.fr/enluminures/aaccueil.shtm

I've also found several useful items in several online galleries. Most useful has been the Web Gallery:

http://gallery.euroweb.hu

Brigham Young's DScriptorium has some 14th century images in the "Mystere dou jour dou jugement" manuscript, (M)579. See jpegs 38, 40, 41, and 47 for some examples:

http://www.byu.edu/~hurlbut/dscriptorium/

Or you can spend quite a while mucking through the online collection at the Bodleian or Oxford:

http://www.rsl.ox.ac.uk/welcome.html

Although there are a few companies selling copies of brass rubbings, they are not as useful as the limited selection of images here:

http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/pic-lib/picture_library.htm

(Don't forget to look at the "incised slab" sections. Not all armor is in the "Armour" file.) Still, you're better off wih books than these web sources, but these are free.

Then there are those little treasures that others find for you, and give to you at wonderful places like this. This is apparently a "visual aid" file for a class at the University of Kansas:

http://kuhttp.cc.ukans.edu/kansas/herman/graphics/siege.jpg

It's amazing what one can find with a search engine looking for technical terms like "prunt" or "kette-panzer".
Well, I've rambled quite enough. If you find something interesting, let us know. We might not have seen it before.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Fri Aug 02, 2002 5:58 am

There's also MS Germ., fol. 623, at the Staatsbibliothek Preussischen Kulturbesitz in Berlin, but I don't know anywhere on the et you can access it. There's a good picture of Roland's death from about 1250 on f. 23r, and maybe there are others as well - that's the only one I've been able to access.

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Egfroth

"Power; it corrupts! I can FEEL it!!
see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos