The Armour Archive

With the price of wool what it is, I don't want to mess this project up. So I'm looking for everyones thoughts on something.

Here is what I am making. A two panel rectangluar cloak, the inside panel is of one color and should appear to frame the smaller outside panel of a different color. My problem is that I don't know the best way to sew the two panels together and there are a few different options. The most simple way would probably be to just hem both pieces of fabric and just stitch the smaller piece onto the larger. If I am understanding The Viking Experience's website properly this is how they suggest to do it, I'm unsure though. One could also fold the larger panel over onto the smaller and stitch it on. Another option would be to sew it like one would a pillow, where you sew almost all of it then turn it inside out where the seems wouldn't show. Although this way would leave the outer panel somewhat free-floating to move around. I'm sure there are problably a few other ways even yet that I haven't thought about.

I know cloak finds are very limited, so I know that information will be pretty scares. Anyone tried to make one like/similar to this before, or even have seen how some re-enactors tend to make these?

Thanks
Shane

All the rectangular cloaks I have seen are of one piece of fabric. Sometimes with a border of another contrasting color sewn on.

Can you tell me why you are doing it with two layers? Is it particularly cold where you are? Did you find some neat-o documentation for two-layered cloaks that you will (drool) share with us?

If you want a two-colored cloak, it will be cheaper on the wool to sew on a border rather than layer.

If you want to layer, you will need to applique the smaller piece onto the larger one, and probably quilt a bit throughout the body of the cloak as well. (Wool stretches. Your center will pucker if you don't quilt.

There is evidence for vikings quilting. Not patch-work quilts, but layering feathers/down/wool between two outer layers and then quilting across the two layers to keep everything in place. I've read about it in conjunction with over dresses.

- Anarra

Hello,

Well I wish I did have documentation for two layer cloaks, but I don't. I picked the idea up from the re-enactment group The Viking's basic kit guide. This guide is found on the website here:

http://www.the-viking-expericence.co.uk/

Seems like it mentions something about a find in York where the cloak might have what could be taken as a lining. Other than that it doesn't say much other than the about the group requirements. I might have to send them an email and see if they can give me anymore information as to why they suggest the construction of a two layer cloak.

Thanks for the help
Shane

-I checked with the "Viking Experience"-page and found the passage you mentioned. As usual it lack references of any kind - a feature I hate with Net-articles since I'm keen on crosschecking my sources!

I wonder if the fragment they're speaking of is really fragment 1460 - it's a piled fabric with a Norse style combed-wool tabby attached to it - but it's not a lining though, more like an edge reinforcement...

I'll have to look in to it more thoroughly though...

/N B

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
<B>There is evidence for vikings quilting. Not patch-work quilts, but layering feathers/down/wool between two outer layers and then quilting across the two layers to keep everything in place. I've read about it in conjunction with over dresses.

- Anarra</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Annarra,
Where did you find this info? I would love to know more. In this part of An Tir (eastern Washington/north Idaho)it gets COLD at night and sometimes all weekend long. A quilted overdress would be great for my daughter. At 5, she doesn't keep cloaks or coats on very well.

Squatch,
I'm sorry I sidetracked your question.



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Aife
Te precor dulcissime supplex! Needle and Blade

The interested will find information about the down-quilted garments in Inga Hägg's publications on the Haithabu textile finds.

/N B

To answer your question--the pillow style.

I made a cloak using this technique and it turned out quite nicely.

Check it out on the bottom of this page

The lining is yellow linen and the outer is a cotton/wool flannel. Not exactly period or documentable (as far as I know) but it sure looks nice.

[This message has been edited by atliravensson (edited 01-11-2003).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ny Björn:
<B>The interested will find information about the down-quilted garments in Inga Hägg's publications on the Haithabu textile finds.

/N B</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you.



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Aife
Te precor dulcissime supplex! Needle and Blade

Thanks everyone..

This has been very helpful.
Shane

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ULTRAGOTHA:
All the rectangular cloaks I have seen are of one piece of fabric. Sometimes with a border of another contrasting color sewn on.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two pieces are very authentic. Remember that on your average hand-loom, you can't do more than 4 foot wide comfortably.

I've some hand-loomed stuff I was given as a gift from my girlfriends father - he got it as a souvenir during the closing of the last commerican hand-loomed factory in britain in the sixties (some island off the cost of scotland).

It's just under three foot wide - barely wide enough to make in to a tabard like tunic. As it's orange, pink and green it was *perfect* for Iron Age stuff.

[QUOTE]<B>
Can you tell me why you are doing it with two layers? Is it particularly cold where you are? Did you find some neat-o documentation for two-layered cloaks that you will (drool) share with us?
</B>[QUOTE]

Er, aren't most cloaks lined ? Otherwise you'd need very heavy wool. I've a lined mantle with loads of string wool on it, to make it look similar to the bear-skin like "shaggy mantle". Also, linen would be a lot more hard wearing than wool, and a little nicer on the skin.

Ah - did you mean a double wool-on-wool thing, with two different colours of wool ? I'd never heard of that being done at all.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by valen:
Two pieces are very authentic. Remember that on your average hand-loom, you can't do more than 4 foot wide comfortably.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not in the Viking age. Viking age warp weighted looms could be as wide as two women could reach to pass the shuttle to each other. And even when narrower and used only by one person could easily weave pieces that were wider than 48 inches. (Even I on my very narrow demo warp weighted loom can do 48 inches.)

The looms you are thinking of were a later invention, not known to the Vikings--horizontal floor looms woven on by one seated woman (or man) passing the shuttle back and forth between her two hands. Which limited the width quite a bit more than warp weighted looms did.

That said, a cloak out of two pieces of wool sewn together at a seam is completely plausible, even with the wider width of fabrics in the Viking age.

It was a cloak made out of two pieces of wool sewn one on top of the other in layers that I was questioning.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Er, aren't most cloaks lined ? Otherwise you'd need very heavy wool. I've a lined mantle with loads of string wool on it, to make it look similar to the bear-skin like "shaggy mantle". Also, linen would be a lot more hard wearing than wool, and a little nicer on the skin.</font>

In the later middle ages, I understand cloaks were often lined. (My knowledge starts petering out at the end of the 10th century.)

In the Viking age, I haven't seen any documentation for lined cloaks, which is why I asked. There is good documentation for a wool cloak that is woven, then tufts of wool are incorporated all over it to make a very shaggy (and, I presume, WARM) rectangular cloak. But I haven't found anything yet on lined rectangular cloaks.

It would be easier, anyway, to simply wear two different rectangular cloaks, one on top of the other, if that much warmth was needed. More versitile, too.

Regards!

- Anarra Karlsdottir