Has anybody seen these sites before? What do y'all think of an online costuming school?
http://www.costumeclassroom.com/
http://costume.dm.net/
costuming classes
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FrauHirsch
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by seyc:
<B>Has anybody seen these sites before? What do y'all think of an online costuming school?
http://www.costumeclassroom.com/
http://costume.dm.net/</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There seems to be some decent teachers. Juanita Leitsch's book is pretty awesome. The basic costumes shown created from the class are ok for first attempts. A couple student's projects are extremely nice, though others have fabric choice and color issues.
Obviously people successfully created costumes by taking the courses, so that is great.
I think personally that I would have a hard time teaching on-line. Sewing is so hands-on for many people. I often have to present information in 5 different ways for some people to get some of the more difficult concepts. Especially the fitting, patterning and moving from 2-D to 3-D...
-J
<B>Has anybody seen these sites before? What do y'all think of an online costuming school?
http://www.costumeclassroom.com/
http://costume.dm.net/</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
There seems to be some decent teachers. Juanita Leitsch's book is pretty awesome. The basic costumes shown created from the class are ok for first attempts. A couple student's projects are extremely nice, though others have fabric choice and color issues.
Obviously people successfully created costumes by taking the courses, so that is great.
I think personally that I would have a hard time teaching on-line. Sewing is so hands-on for many people. I often have to present information in 5 different ways for some people to get some of the more difficult concepts. Especially the fitting, patterning and moving from 2-D to 3-D...
-J
Drea Leed has a good reputation and my girlfriend has done classes with her in the past and she said she rally knows her stuff, and for my girlfriend to say that means she must.
Personally I would not pay to do a class with someone who I did not know is good or not. I took about 5 minutes of all but one of the classes I thought might be good a Pennsic because most people do not put the level of research into what they are talking about that I can trust. Prime example is a lady who tried to convince me that because one the 14th century artist made 3 images of angle wing sleeves, on angles, that they must have had them in the 14th century. She was upset when I told her that they could be made up and I would accept it if she had 1 image from unrelated (as in not taught by one another) 3 artists.
Just food for thought.
Flonzy
------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy
Personally I would not pay to do a class with someone who I did not know is good or not. I took about 5 minutes of all but one of the classes I thought might be good a Pennsic because most people do not put the level of research into what they are talking about that I can trust. Prime example is a lady who tried to convince me that because one the 14th century artist made 3 images of angle wing sleeves, on angles, that they must have had them in the 14th century. She was upset when I told her that they could be made up and I would accept it if she had 1 image from unrelated (as in not taught by one another) 3 artists.
Just food for thought.
Flonzy
------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by flonzy:
<B>I would accept it if she had 1 image from unrelated (as in not taught by one another) 3 artists.
Just food for thought.
Flonzy
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here's an unknown artist from the Po Valley (Lombardian) school that produced the celebrated Tacuinum Sanitatis manuscripts of the late 14th century. This image, of "Millet", f.52v of the "Paris" TS, shows something like angel sleeves. It's dated to between 1380 and 1390:
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_ts_paris.JPG[/img]
This next one is by a different artist but same time and place, and from the "Vienna" TS:
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_ts_vienna.JPG[/img]
From a tapestry made in Alsace between 1385 and 1400, we have a pic that shows the beginning of the angel-wing fashion which will bloom fully by the turn of the coming century:
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_alsace.JPG[/img]
and finally, here's a pic attributed to a "Latin manuscript" called Dulla Aurea Caroli IV regis" from 1385-1400, belonging to King Wenceslas IV at that time. These ladies in their context are not angels, far as I can tell, nor are any of the other illos I posted here.
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_wenceslas.JPG[/img]
I think it's safe to say that the style was cutting-edge in the last 20 years of the 14th century, mostly in central Europe. (There are French pics too, but I haven't found them in my rather quick search and don't want to clutter this board with TOO many pics.)
It's clear to me that the style existed (secularly) in the late 14thc. but became fully-bloomed in the first 20 years of the 15th century, with the full ascension of the voluminous houppelande (and some fitted styles sporting the same sleeves).
Cheers,
Tasha
<B>I would accept it if she had 1 image from unrelated (as in not taught by one another) 3 artists.
Just food for thought.
Flonzy
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Here's an unknown artist from the Po Valley (Lombardian) school that produced the celebrated Tacuinum Sanitatis manuscripts of the late 14th century. This image, of "Millet", f.52v of the "Paris" TS, shows something like angel sleeves. It's dated to between 1380 and 1390:
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_ts_paris.JPG[/img]
This next one is by a different artist but same time and place, and from the "Vienna" TS:
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_ts_vienna.JPG[/img]
From a tapestry made in Alsace between 1385 and 1400, we have a pic that shows the beginning of the angel-wing fashion which will bloom fully by the turn of the coming century:
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_alsace.JPG[/img]
and finally, here's a pic attributed to a "Latin manuscript" called Dulla Aurea Caroli IV regis" from 1385-1400, belonging to King Wenceslas IV at that time. These ladies in their context are not angels, far as I can tell, nor are any of the other illos I posted here.
[img]http://www.cottesimple.com/misc/angel_wing_sleeve_wenceslas.JPG[/img]
I think it's safe to say that the style was cutting-edge in the last 20 years of the 14th century, mostly in central Europe. (There are French pics too, but I haven't found them in my rather quick search and don't want to clutter this board with TOO many pics.)
It's clear to me that the style existed (secularly) in the late 14thc. but became fully-bloomed in the first 20 years of the 15th century, with the full ascension of the voluminous houppelande (and some fitted styles sporting the same sleeves).
Cheers,
Tasha
The angel wing sleeve in the 14th century has always been a point of confusion for me. I have seen a lot of period pictures where the sleeve hangs down but the sleeve opening starts a little in front of the elbow.
So would that style be the start of the angel wing fashion?
------------------
Ish
The more you know, the more you know you ought to know
So would that style be the start of the angel wing fashion?
------------------
Ish
The more you know, the more you know you ought to know
You're probably thinking of the style that morphed into 'tippets', or 'tapets', or whatever you want to call them.
In the late 1330s in Europe there emerged a fashion by which a short-sleeved over-gown began to flare around the elbow. This quickly morphed into a flare that only fell under the elbow, probably because a short flare of fabric dripping across the forearm became annoying (who knows exactly?). The little half-flare then began to elongate until it became long and tongue-shaped. These are often called "integral tippets" by historic costumers, meaning they're part of the original fabric of the gown. I tend to call them "hanging flaps" (very inelegant, I know...)
From there it eventually grew a band around the end of the short sleeve and the tongue became even longer, and sometimes quite wide and squared-off at the bottom. There's controversy among costumers about whether the band represents a separate piece that can be put on over a long-sleeved gown and moved from gown to gown or whether it represents a new decorative element on the 'integral tippet'. My personal belief is that the band is simply further evolution of the original hanging-flap fashion and is usually on a short-sleeved over-gown. I have seen one illumination, though, that hints at the other possibility. Le Roman de Guiron le Courtois (those crafty Lombardian artists again), has a scene with a gallery of ladies watching a melee tourney. One of the ladies has what appears to be a red tippet tied or in some way attached to what appears to be a long-sleeved gown -- it's plaid, above and below the tippet band.
This leads me to believe that the original 2-gown-layer method of tippet/hanging-flap use was the original, high-end fashion, while ladies in southern climes or of poorer status may have chosen to mimic the look by conflating layers and donning removable bands with streamers (removable tippets, essentially) over their single gown -- which would certainly cut down on heat prostration in warm weather and the cost of two gowns.
Anyway, the angel-sleeve look appears to be a different version of over-gown sleeve style that began developing when fashion headed toward voluminous use of fabric somewhere around the 1380s.
The one thing they both have in common (angel wings and tippets/flaps) is that they're over-gown sleeve styles -- meant to be worn with a long/close-fitted-sleeved gown beneath. You can diagnose whether a gown can be worn as a fancy top layer over another gown by how loose or unrestrictive its sleeves are -- angel wing sleeves and short-sleeved gowns (with or without tippets) are likely to go well with a standard long-sleeved under-gown. Hope that helps,
Tasha
PS -- Sorry; I took the thread off in a different direction. (It's all Flonzy's fault! He *made* me do it!
)
In the late 1330s in Europe there emerged a fashion by which a short-sleeved over-gown began to flare around the elbow. This quickly morphed into a flare that only fell under the elbow, probably because a short flare of fabric dripping across the forearm became annoying (who knows exactly?). The little half-flare then began to elongate until it became long and tongue-shaped. These are often called "integral tippets" by historic costumers, meaning they're part of the original fabric of the gown. I tend to call them "hanging flaps" (very inelegant, I know...)
From there it eventually grew a band around the end of the short sleeve and the tongue became even longer, and sometimes quite wide and squared-off at the bottom. There's controversy among costumers about whether the band represents a separate piece that can be put on over a long-sleeved gown and moved from gown to gown or whether it represents a new decorative element on the 'integral tippet'. My personal belief is that the band is simply further evolution of the original hanging-flap fashion and is usually on a short-sleeved over-gown. I have seen one illumination, though, that hints at the other possibility. Le Roman de Guiron le Courtois (those crafty Lombardian artists again), has a scene with a gallery of ladies watching a melee tourney. One of the ladies has what appears to be a red tippet tied or in some way attached to what appears to be a long-sleeved gown -- it's plaid, above and below the tippet band.
This leads me to believe that the original 2-gown-layer method of tippet/hanging-flap use was the original, high-end fashion, while ladies in southern climes or of poorer status may have chosen to mimic the look by conflating layers and donning removable bands with streamers (removable tippets, essentially) over their single gown -- which would certainly cut down on heat prostration in warm weather and the cost of two gowns.
Anyway, the angel-sleeve look appears to be a different version of over-gown sleeve style that began developing when fashion headed toward voluminous use of fabric somewhere around the 1380s.
The one thing they both have in common (angel wings and tippets/flaps) is that they're over-gown sleeve styles -- meant to be worn with a long/close-fitted-sleeved gown beneath. You can diagnose whether a gown can be worn as a fancy top layer over another gown by how loose or unrestrictive its sleeves are -- angel wing sleeves and short-sleeved gowns (with or without tippets) are likely to go well with a standard long-sleeved under-gown. Hope that helps,
Tasha
PS -- Sorry; I took the thread off in a different direction. (It's all Flonzy's fault! He *made* me do it!
)Hehe I take no responsibility only offered and example of what to watch out for 
. I guess I should have said we were talking 1300 too .
Anyway documentation like Tasha’s makes a good case because not just one guy did it. Plus in my example it was one painter and they were all paintings of angles in religious scenes. Under the ladies thinking angles wings were legit too. I think a few folks in the SCA would like that .
Flonzy
------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy
. I guess I should have said we were talking 1300 too .Anyway documentation like Tasha’s makes a good case because not just one guy did it. Plus in my example it was one painter and they were all paintings of angles in religious scenes. Under the ladies thinking angles wings were legit too
. I think a few folks in the SCA would like that .Flonzy
------------------
Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/flonzy
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Talan Gwyllt
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Talan Gwyllt:
As long as Machin can come out to play with us fighter types you can talk all day long if you wish.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gee, thanks Talan. I think you're just glad I don't put on my armour that much anymore and whip your butt.
-Tasha
As long as Machin can come out to play with us fighter types you can talk all day long if you wish.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gee, thanks Talan. I think you're just glad I don't put on my armour that much anymore and whip your butt.
-Tasha