SCA- Camp space

[adric]

Do any of the wars offer more space to period tents vs pimples? has this been tried? Could this be tried? I was thinking that offering more space to the period folks might get the pimple people to trade up if thier camp space was nuked and given to the people who are enhancing the experience vs detracting from it. Comments?

[Owen]

Pennsic did at one point, but dropped it for, IIRC, a variety of reasons, not least of which being they no longer had the space to do so. I can't say for certain whether it actually helped or not, or whether the use of period tentage increased on its own; I do know that it has gotten better over the years even without that incentive.

[Maeryk]

The land space restrictions are MORE conducive to nylon tentage than they are to period pavilions. I know of some camps forced to give up firepits and other things so everyone can use their big double bells. Viking A frames do great on space.. but my 10x20 monster (with wind lines) just about eats up my land allotment for one person. For the bigger tents (and yes, there _are_ bigger tents) you need to put more than one person in there.. once you consider the pavilion itself is 200 sq ft, the sunshade that ropes off the front (cooking area) is 10x10.. thats 350 sq.. more than one persons allotment.. and that doesnt count a shower area, communal kitchen, etc etc.

So.. we start overlapping wind ropes and such.. and then we get some ass with a 3 foot stick goign through camp going "too close.. too close too close"..

*sigh*

Maeryk

[adric]

The land space restrictions are MORE conducive to nylon tentage than they are to period pavilions. I know of some camps forced to give up firepits and other things so everyone can use their big double bells. Viking A frames do great on space.. but my 10x20 monster (with wind lines) just about eats up my land allotment for one person. For the bigger tents (and yes, there _are_ bigger tents) you need to put more than one person in there.. once you consider the pavilion itself is 200 sq ft, the sunshade that ropes off the front (cooking area) is 10x10.. thats 350 sq.. more than one persons allotment.. and that doesnt count a shower area, communal kitchen, etc etc.

So.. we start overlapping wind ropes and such.. and then we get some ass with a 3 foot stick goign through camp going "too close.. too close too close"..

*sigh*

Maeryk

Thats why i was wondering. our camp has gone 100% wedges and walls and by the time you have the kitchen area up and the braziers and tables and stuff you barely have room to swing a dead cat over you head. But if you down the road a ways there is the great earth pimple camps and you could land a jumbo jet in the middle of thier space. It would be nice but i realize not fair to cut thier land in half as they need much less and reallocate to the more period encampments that need it.

[Jasper]

you big tent people need to sublet your space a little.

[T. Finkas]

Yeah, that SUCKS! I traded my 12' round for a 20' round right before I moved to Pittsburgh, thinking the larger tent would be better for Pennsic. Now I am not so sure. I wanted the bigger tent so out-of-town guests could stay with me. Perhaps that would work if they prereg'd.

At any rate, I blew it for this year cause I missed the pre-reg deadline and will be camping at the single campsite area. Does anybody know how much room you get there?

Cheers,
Tim Finkas

[Dougal Forester]

Tim, Seeing your post reminded me of something. Someone that you could talk to regarding Pennsic...His name is Langdon, he was once and perhaps still is an armourer of sorts. He was the Baron of the Debatable Lands for some time, and he posts here on the archive. He is also a very nice guy who was kind enough to hammer (read: make a bit bigger) out my wifes armour a bit one Pennsic a few years back at his home. His camp at Pennsic is usually on the Serengeti and is a period encampment. Sincerely, Dougal (mike)

[Hushgirl]

I wish there could be a sliding scale based on tent size. If I ever can't go to Pennsic with T-Bob, he'll have to find a roommate or leave Rainbringer behind. It take a minumum of two pre-regs to accommodate her.

One year we registered our cat to be sure.

[Templar Bob/De Tyre]

Does anybody know how much room you get there?

Two hundred fifty square feet per person (depending on available space).

http://www.pennsicwar.org

[Maeryk]

I wish there could be a sliding scale based on tent size. If I ever can't go to Pennsic with T-Bob, he'll have to find a roommate or leave Rainbringer behind. It take a minumum of two pre-regs to accommodate her.

ONe nice thing is kids.. I have two.. therefore my wife and the two of us gets us 1000 Sq Ft. (but we ACTUALLY BRING THE KIDS).

I have no real issues if people are pre-regging kids or whatever to get actual used space.. but it REALLY gets me when they have the helipad and the bocce court set up in the middle of the camp, and not a kid in sight.. and the excuse is usually "oh.. their coming!" while they crushed our honest pre-reg numbers by 6 feet width x 100 foot depth. Losing 600 square feet sucks.. losing it to people because they phantom pre-regd REALLY sucks.. and it seems to depend on whose ass the land-folks want to kiss on any given year how it will work out.

That has gotten a lot better since they resurveyed.. one of the HUGE problems was they used to work with bad maps.. i know one site we had was theoretically X amount of space, but we lost quite a bit because the map did not take into account the road that had been built there years before.. but they still swore left and center it was X square feet..

Maeryk

[Templar Bob/De Tyre]

I wish there could be a sliding scale based on tent size. If I ever can't go to Pennsic with T-Bob, he'll have to find a roommate or leave Rainbringer behind. It take a minumum of two pre-regs to accommodate her.

ONe nice thing is kids.. I have two.. therefore my wife and the two of us gets us 1000 Sq Ft. (but we ACTUALLY BRING THE KIDS).

I have no real issues if people are pre-regging kids or whatever to get actual used space.. but it REALLY gets me when they have the helipad and the bocce court set up in the middle of the camp, and not a kid in sight.. and the excuse is usually "oh.. their coming!" while they crushed our honest pre-reg numbers by 6 feet width x 100 foot depth. Losing 600 square feet sucks.. losing it to people because they phantom pre-regd REALLY sucks.. and it seems to depend on whose ass the land-folks want to kiss on any given year how it will work out.

That has gotten a lot better since they resurveyed.. one of the HUGE problems was they used to work with bad maps.. i know one site we had was theoretically X amount of space, but we lost quite a bit because the map did not take into account the road that had been built there years before.. but they still swore left and center it was X square feet..

Maeryk

This is also a problem when your group is one who does one of the more popular parties at Pennsic.

House De Tyre (and currently, House Ironstar--the inheritors of "Rib Night"), had to deal with increasingly reduced space, making it difficult to have space to cook for 1000+ people (let alone entertain them). One solution was to close off one of the side streets for the duration of "Rib Night" to accommodate all of the guests, but that's not really the best of solutions--it only works if your neighbors are cooperative.

But then, free ribs tend to make people very cooperative!

[Maeryk]

This is also a problem when your group is one who does one of the more popular parties at Pennsic.

House De Tyre (and currently, House Ironstar--the inheritors of "Rib Night"), had to deal with increasingly reduced space, making it difficult to have space to cook for 1000+ people (let alone entertain them). One solution was to close off one of the side streets for the duration of "Rib Night" to accommodate all of the guests, but that's not really the best of solutions--it only works if your neighbors are cooperative.

Personally, I'd prefer to see the "more popular parties" stay down in the swamp where, IMHO, they belong. Serengetti is "family camping" and increasingly cramped.. and while I UNDERSTAND that Royals want to be up there, some of the "extra" space they end up with kinda ticks me too.. we all pay the same amount to get in, we should all get the same amount of space.

It would really annoy me to find out that I have to literally sidestep the shower pit to leave my tent in the morning because someone wanted to have their "margarita night" with plenty of space for square dancing and UFO landings, and had swayed the land office with their sob story.

Thats not to say parties arent a good thing.. but some of us tend to not go to them, and they can get annoying (some, not all, obviously) for those who do not go and have to put up with the aftermath/noise/etc.

We had one year where the camp next to us demanded an "access road" to the back of their camp, which the land office nicely took out of OUR land and roped off. Cest la vie.. till our PREREGGED people got there, and LITERALLY had no place to camp. (Meanwhile, the camp next door had a 10 foot swath right up the middle of their camp, AND a six foot road next to it..). So our last folks in set up half in our camp, half in the road, and put up with snotty comments at 3AM from drunken passersby about "camping in our road". It had the potential to get REALLY ugly.. but it did get sorted out.

THe more they compress Pennsic the worse its going to get.. and frankly, I think period pavilions SHOULD be given more leeway.. there is nothing vaguely period about nylon.. I worked my ass off to move from a Coleman to a 1000 dollar pavilion.. and it REALLY burns my ass to be told I should pack a nylon tent just in case.. cuase the space may not be there when I get there for the big green motherscrubber.

Maeryk

[Templar Bob/De Tyre]

Maeryk:

Rib Night (as originally planned) was designed as a free meal for people who would otherwise have to live off of Ramen noodles--the idea being that for at least one night of Pennsic, they'd have a meal with variety, and a full stomach.

With respect, it's not just a "margarita night". It's original ideal was as a service to the SCA in general, and the Middle in particular.

Speaking as a person with a large pavilion, I'd rather make a friend with a meal. I think I speak for those who are in House Ironstar as well (especially those who slave over that fire-pit, so people won't have to dip in their pockets for dinner for one night).

[Hushgirl]

Strategy point--try to get all the people with period tentage in your encampment to show up and check in the first weekend. Then set them up around your perimeter.

I drove out the first weekend last year and dropped T-Bob off with the gear, even though I had to work the next week. When I got in early Saturday, all I had to do was unload and park.

[Templar Bob/De Tyre]

Moving back to topic:

I do think some consideration should be given to groups with a predominant number of period pavilions, vs. modern tentage, as it would encourage the purchase and use of period pavilions. However, that's not my call...

[Maeryk]

Maeryk:

Rib Night (as originally planned) was designed as a free meal for people who would otherwise have to live off of Ramen noodles--the idea being that for at least one night of Pennsic, they'd have a meal with variety, and a full stomach.

Ahh.. gotcha. In that case, party on.

Like I said.. not all parties fit the mold.. but things like Creeping Death, and Pentwyverns spectaculars belong down in the swamp.. not up in "family camping"

Maeryk

[Guy Dawkins]

Moving back to topic:

I do think some consideration should be given to groups with a predominant number of period pavilions, vs. modern tentage, as it would encourage the purchase and use of period pavilions. However, that's not my call...

As it used to be!! At one time they allowed and extra 25sq.ft. per period pavilion and extra room for a firepit.

I quess the question is: Are they (whoever they may be) trying to incourage period pavilions (period anything!) or are they trying to get in as many folks as possible.

I keep hearing how laid back Gulf Wars is.

[Hushgirl]

IF the people who organize Pennsic did what they should do, they would first decide how many people the ground can comfortably and safely hold. They should choose a medium size tent and use that to determine how much room people need per capita. They should set that as a limit and announce same (e.g., only the first 10,000 prereg will be accepted). Then they should allow up or down from the average depending on the size of the tent, not the number of people.