I had a quick question that I could not find any information on. Were Leggings (spats?! ) used in the 14-15 centuries? I hope thats what the are called? I've seen one or two pictures of there use in the 10-12 centuries, but nothing later? They sound like a logical choice in cold weather and was wondering if anyone could give me a definite anwswer? I'm more curious than anything. I was looking at paintings of Landsknechts and wondered if they would use wool leggings to help keep the mud and cold out.
Thanks in advance,
Jason
Leggings?
Moderator: Glen K
Hi Hinrich,
If I understand you correctly, you're looking for what was worn "on the legs" in the 14th and 15th centuries, right?
The term you're looking for would be hose...
Have a look at the "Tights" thread (sometime in February) for an introduction to hose (by Kass) and then do a search for "hose" in general. There will be quite a few threads coming up, since it's a necessary item for most periods. Get yourself a coffee, sit back and....sift through the threads for the info you need.
Cheers,
Caithlinn
If I understand you correctly, you're looking for what was worn "on the legs" in the 14th and 15th centuries, right?
The term you're looking for would be hose...
Have a look at the "Tights" thread (sometime in February) for an introduction to hose (by Kass) and then do a search for "hose" in general. There will be quite a few threads coming up, since it's a necessary item for most periods. Get yourself a coffee, sit back and....sift through the threads for the info you need.
Cheers,
Caithlinn
Plus faict douceur que violenz
Hi Caithlinn,
Thanks, but its not hose. They are basically stips of wool worn around the shin, kind of like the old 80's leg warmers. I've seen pictures of them worn in the early crusades and more common before that. I was just wondering if anyone knew if they existed after that. They probably have a proper name, but for the life of me I cannot think of it.
Thanks, Jason
Thanks, but its not hose. They are basically stips of wool worn around the shin, kind of like the old 80's leg warmers. I've seen pictures of them worn in the early crusades and more common before that. I was just wondering if anyone knew if they existed after that. They probably have a proper name, but for the life of me I cannot think of it.
Thanks, Jason
-
Primvs Pavlvs
- Archive Member
- Posts: 11962
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Hillbillyville, USA
- Contact:
I think what you are looking for are basically short hosen or chauses. In German they are called strumpfhosen. 
sorry when I read that I saw 80s legwarmers and thought short hosen.
sorry when I read that I saw 80s legwarmers and thought short hosen.
Last edited by Primvs Pavlvs on Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hinrich -
I believe what you are describing are properly called winingas, and no, they are not worn in the 14th or 15th centuries to the best of my knowledge. The legwear of choice for those centuries is hose. In the early part of the 14th century, hose were separate (one for each leg, with no crotch piece); they began to be joined right around the turn of the 15th century and on. This is, necessarily, an extremely brief overview - there are differences depending on a number of factors.
For more information on either winingas or hose, just do a general Archive search. Plenty of info out there.
Gwyneth
I believe what you are describing are properly called winingas, and no, they are not worn in the 14th or 15th centuries to the best of my knowledge. The legwear of choice for those centuries is hose. In the early part of the 14th century, hose were separate (one for each leg, with no crotch piece); they began to be joined right around the turn of the 15th century and on. This is, necessarily, an extremely brief overview - there are differences depending on a number of factors.
For more information on either winingas or hose, just do a general Archive search. Plenty of info out there.
Gwyneth
I don't think he's talking about winningas. In "Medieval Military Costume" there are a couple of photos of reinactors from the 12th-13th century period wearing what seems to be a rectangle or square of fabric wrapped around the lower legs maybe once or twice--indeed looking very much like leg warmers. They are definately not thin strips of fabric wrapped around the lower legs like winningas.
I don't know if they're period for 14thC or not.
I don't know if they're period for 14thC or not.
The objects you describe (leggings?) are fairly common in illustrations of peasants working the fields in the 15th cent. For example, in the http://www.bnf.fr/site_bnf_eng/expos/index.htm
site look up themes, science and technology, agriculture and you will find a one of a peasant with some nice blue leggings tied up at ankle and calf. In the book Medieval Panorama by the Getty Museum there are several more examples. I can't think of a case where they are shown on a non-agricultural worker however.
Hope this helps
site look up themes, science and technology, agriculture and you will find a one of a peasant with some nice blue leggings tied up at ankle and calf. In the book Medieval Panorama by the Getty Museum there are several more examples. I can't think of a case where they are shown on a non-agricultural worker however.
Hope this helps
Hinrich,
If you could post a few of the images you've found of those "leggings", I think we can picture better what you're looking for. Legwraps or winingas were not used much after the crusades (they seem to come back in later centuries (I only know the German word, sorry) as "Gamaschen"), but not in the timeframe you're looking at.
Post some pictures and I'm sure we can work it out....
Cheers,
Caithlinn
If you could post a few of the images you've found of those "leggings", I think we can picture better what you're looking for. Legwraps or winingas were not used much after the crusades (they seem to come back in later centuries (I only know the German word, sorry) as "Gamaschen"), but not in the timeframe you're looking at.
Post some pictures and I'm sure we can work it out....
Cheers,
Caithlinn
Plus faict douceur que violenz
-
Primvs Pavlvs
- Archive Member
- Posts: 11962
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Hillbillyville, USA
- Contact:
Hello all,
Thank you for discussing this with me. Gwyneth hit the nail on the head. A little more searching based on her response and I found out the pictures I had were of "Puttees" or winingas.
I was mainly more curious than anything. Winingas look like a very practical and cheap solution to keeping mud and the cold out of turnshoes. I do a lot of hiking and out door work and if I were wearing hosen and turnshoes, my wife would probably make me wear something like that to keep the burrs and mud off my hosen
It just seem strange to me that they would just dissapear? Thank you all for your responses,
Jason
Thank you for discussing this with me. Gwyneth hit the nail on the head. A little more searching based on her response and I found out the pictures I had were of "Puttees" or winingas.
I was mainly more curious than anything. Winingas look like a very practical and cheap solution to keeping mud and the cold out of turnshoes. I do a lot of hiking and out door work and if I were wearing hosen and turnshoes, my wife would probably make me wear something like that to keep the burrs and mud off my hosen
It just seem strange to me that they would just dissapear? Thank you all for your responses,
Jason
Hinrich; clearly you are right, I did not examine the pic closely enough. Those are split hose rolled down. How about a second try? I think what you are describing is being worn on the left of this pic. over a pair of blue split hose by the torturer scratching his backside.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/l ... poline.bmp
You may need to expand the pic to see the leggings clearly. Looking through Medieval Panorama again there was also a 15th cent pic of a begger in leggings worn over hose. The leggings were tied with garters at the top and bottom.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/l ... poline.bmp
You may need to expand the pic to see the leggings clearly. Looking through Medieval Panorama again there was also a 15th cent pic of a begger in leggings worn over hose. The leggings were tied with garters at the top and bottom.
Hi Paul,
"Wickelgamaschen" was what I was thinking about. They had a surprising similarity to the Viking age viningas. "Strumpfhosen" (the word being a combination of stocking+pants, strictly German mind you...) would imply they are tight fitting, knitted and cover the leg from toe to waist (well, tights, really...... )
Wickelgamaschen were still used during the two world wars (but not only in military context, the forresters and hunters used them and in general people doing a lot of out-of-doors work in forest areas) and my father (born 1930) wore them even after the war for hiking. Both information is more or less "eyewitness" information from my father and my grandmother.....
As to your picture, lorenzo2, if you compare the calf area of the blue-hosed guy with the one sitting on the ground in cream coloured hose, the bunched up part on the ankles of the blue-hosed guy looks more like higher boots to me...... but maybe that's just my crooked vision...
Glad to hear you've sorta found the info you'd been looking for, Hinrich.
Cheers,
Caithlinn
"Wickelgamaschen" was what I was thinking about. They had a surprising similarity to the Viking age viningas. "Strumpfhosen" (the word being a combination of stocking+pants, strictly German mind you...) would imply they are tight fitting, knitted and cover the leg from toe to waist (well, tights, really...... )
Wickelgamaschen were still used during the two world wars (but not only in military context, the forresters and hunters used them and in general people doing a lot of out-of-doors work in forest areas) and my father (born 1930) wore them even after the war for hiking. Both information is more or less "eyewitness" information from my father and my grandmother.....
As to your picture, lorenzo2, if you compare the calf area of the blue-hosed guy with the one sitting on the ground in cream coloured hose, the bunched up part on the ankles of the blue-hosed guy looks more like higher boots to me...... but maybe that's just my crooked vision...
Glad to hear you've sorta found the info you'd been looking for, Hinrich.
Cheers,
Caithlinn
Plus faict douceur que violenz
-
Egfroth
- Archive Member
- Posts: 4577
- Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
- Contact:
Way back when I was doing my nashos (national service - in the army), we wore thse things. They were called gaiters, and as far as I know, that's their right name.
My dictionary's definition is gaiter 1. An outer covering of cloth or leather for the leg below the knee or for the ankle, for outdoor wear.. There's an image of a modern pair at http://www.onthefly.com/images/clothes/ ... guards.jpg and an exquisitely fitted pair at http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgu ... ie%3DUTF-8
And the things the guy scratching his bum is wearing do seem to be separate from the boots - they overlap them below the ankle. I think we have a genuine pair of gaiters there.
On the other hand, there's chaps, which the old cowboys used to wear, but they were a different animal again - full leg length and no backs to them - they were to keep the thorny chapparal brush from scratching their legs when they rode through it.
My dictionary's definition is gaiter 1. An outer covering of cloth or leather for the leg below the knee or for the ankle, for outdoor wear.. There's an image of a modern pair at http://www.onthefly.com/images/clothes/ ... guards.jpg and an exquisitely fitted pair at http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgu ... ie%3DUTF-8
And the things the guy scratching his bum is wearing do seem to be separate from the boots - they overlap them below the ankle. I think we have a genuine pair of gaiters there.
On the other hand, there's chaps, which the old cowboys used to wear, but they were a different animal again - full leg length and no backs to them - they were to keep the thorny chapparal brush from scratching their legs when they rode through it.
Egfroth
It's not really armour if you haven't bled on it.
It's not really armour if you haven't bled on it.
-
Primvs Pavlvs
- Archive Member
- Posts: 11962
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Hillbillyville, USA
- Contact:
-
Bob H
- Archive Member
- Posts: 21273
- Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2001 1:01 am
- Location: Tri-Cities, TN
- Contact:
Experiential archaeology time! Try that, and see if it works. Not to be a naysayer, but I don't imagine you'll kneel very many times before a "towel wrap" approach fails - that said, I can't tell how they're fastened.
Maybe Brent will see this and show some of the other paintings. I have CRS (can't remember shit) syndrome and although I can usually remember seeing something even to the point of the circumstance and approximate timeframe, I can never seem to lay my hands on the evidence again.
Maybe Brent will see this and show some of the other paintings. I have CRS (can't remember shit) syndrome and although I can usually remember seeing something even to the point of the circumstance and approximate timeframe, I can never seem to lay my hands on the evidence again.
-
HugoFuchs
- Archive Member
- Posts: 2531
- Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Connecticut, USA
- Contact:
Took me a bit to find it. Good thing I have a good memory.
<b><i>
Buskins Or Leg wraps
Buskins are defined here as short, heavy hosen, tied just above or below the knee, and often worn over normal hosen. These are typically worn to protect the hose & legs from brush, and are seen used by horsemen, huntsmen, etc.
Houston [p35] mentions buskins as liturgical vestments: "These are really stockings, originally of linen, later of silk or velvet. When embroidered the pattern was generally of an all-over design [p70]. Embroidery… is from the center front of a buskin.… They ended at the knee where they were tied with a ribbon." Civilian buskins were similar, minus the embroidered decoration (at least, in every depiction I have ever found). Buskins may occasionally be made of leather, according to some sources; this makes sense for protecting the calves of hunters riding through the forests, as depicted in Gaston Phebus' The Hunting Book.
<img src="http://www.greydragon.org/library/Underwear/1450c%20M%20hunter%20France%20capuchon%20hosen%20short%20hosen%20boots%20Houston170.jpg">
c1450. French hunter wearing (2 pair?) short hosen or buskins. Houston p 170
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Houston, Mary G. Medieval Costume in England and France, The 13th, 14th and 15th Centuries (Dover Publications, NY, 1996; 1st pub. Adam & Charles Black, London, 1939, as Vol. II of "A Technical History of Costume")</i></b>
<b><i>
Buskins Or Leg wraps
Buskins are defined here as short, heavy hosen, tied just above or below the knee, and often worn over normal hosen. These are typically worn to protect the hose & legs from brush, and are seen used by horsemen, huntsmen, etc.
Houston [p35] mentions buskins as liturgical vestments: "These are really stockings, originally of linen, later of silk or velvet. When embroidered the pattern was generally of an all-over design [p70]. Embroidery… is from the center front of a buskin.… They ended at the knee where they were tied with a ribbon." Civilian buskins were similar, minus the embroidered decoration (at least, in every depiction I have ever found). Buskins may occasionally be made of leather, according to some sources; this makes sense for protecting the calves of hunters riding through the forests, as depicted in Gaston Phebus' The Hunting Book.
<img src="http://www.greydragon.org/library/Underwear/1450c%20M%20hunter%20France%20capuchon%20hosen%20short%20hosen%20boots%20Houston170.jpg">
c1450. French hunter wearing (2 pair?) short hosen or buskins. Houston p 170
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Houston, Mary G. Medieval Costume in England and France, The 13th, 14th and 15th Centuries (Dover Publications, NY, 1996; 1st pub. Adam & Charles Black, London, 1939, as Vol. II of "A Technical History of Costume")</i></b>