Norman Heraldry and Flags???

[BdeB]

I'm forwarding this note from Mistress Ingvelid in the hope that one of you has the answer.
Byram
***

Hello to you all.

May I please ask your assistance? (I am not a herald!)

"The Norman rulers of southern Italy used flags and lance pennants
(among
them the 'draco') and adopted the golden imperial flag for their
investitures,
which they received from the popes beginning in 1059." (Kleinhenz,
Christopher.
"Medieval Italy: An Encyclopedia". New York: Routledge, 2003.)

I assume that the 'draco' was a dragon or wyvern of some sort. But
what did
"the golden imperial flag", received from the popes, look like?

Many thanks.

Nancy

[Ernst]

Most likely the golden Imperial flag was a cloth-of-gold banner painted or emboidered with the Imperial black eagle. Flags of the World gives an heraldicly piss-poor example of the Imperial arms here:

http://www.fotw.net/flags/de_roman.html

A good example of the Emperor's arms in use can be seen in the very late 12th century 'Liber ad honorem Augusti' where the eagle is used on shield and barding on folio 109r.

A good candidate for the Imperial standard (showing the head of the eagle toward the staff, so perhaps a pennon?) is seen in fo.105r. Unfortunately some of the gilding seems to have been lost.

http://www.renfroana.150m.com/liberadhonorem.htm

[Alcyoneus]

Here is one from the Tapestry:
http://www.geocities.com/beckster05/Has ... rmies.html
This shows a couple more:
http://www.geocities.com/beckster05/Has ... attle.html
(the second, I think shows a banner bearer next to The Bastard as he shows his face to prove he hasn't been killed- this might be a good bet, assuming it is accurate) Another site says that Turstin (son of Rollo) may have been carrying the banner.

This one agrees that the above is the banner:
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bayeux_tap ... 46_48.html
(Toustain fitz Rou le Blanc points to the duke. The banner Toustain holds is large and by far the most fancy: it is usually identified with the papal standard sent by pope Alexander II as a sign of the Church's favor, and the cross is a formy like that of the crusaders at the end of the century.)

This one shows what he thinks the banner looks like:
http://www.btinternet.com/~a.patrick/normanpics.htm

This one has a different idea (6th pic on the page):
http://www.angelfire.com/mb2/battle_has ... ings3.html

Another idea:
The "cobalt banner" of the popes is mentioned several times: blue, charged with a golden eagle. I wonder if there's any actual historical warrant for this as the papal banner ?
http://flagspot.net/flags/fic_pavn.html


This was all from Google websearch asking for "Norman papal banner"
Images gave nothing this time.

[Egfroth]

Actually, something that is sometimes surprisingly successful is writing to the author, care of the publisher's address, and asking what source his info came from, and if there is any supplementary information on the banner. You never know.

I've had museums, authors, etc reply to me with scads of info - sometimes they really like getting mail- it shows someone actually READ the book.