Hey all,
Can anyone point me in the right direction for finding information about what might have been seen in a late 16th century English nobleman's pavilion?
Specifically, I'm trying to recreate a kit of what would have been brought by my persona and/or retainers on a "weekend hunting vacation" in the countryside.
The really big favor I'm asking of Archive group is for information that will help me discover what the item looks like rather than just a listing of it's name. However, I recognize that a a simple list is a logical starting point.
Related question: Does anyone know of any diarys or ledgers kept by the servants of a Nobleman who may have gone on a leasurely trip? I figure a source like this might be a good place to look for a listing of the trappings/ belongings of a Nobleman.
My goal in all of this is to make my currently anachronistic SCA kit more authentic.
Any help and advise is greatly appreciated.
Royce
Help requested - I'm researching a late 16th cent. camp kit
Moderator: Glen K
-
Swordsailor
- Archive Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: Lexington SC
-
Thomas Powers
- Archive Member
- Posts: 13112
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Socorro, New Mexico
-
Swordsailor
- Archive Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: Lexington SC
I suppose normally this type of persona would stay in some country manor house. But for the sake of conversation, lets say it took him two days of travel to get there. He'd need to set up a campsite for the night at some point in the journey. I'm looking to create a kit for SCA events that would depict a traveling Nobleman's collection of belongings.
a little info about me may help (I hope). I don't fence or fight heavy, so I won't need to include armor/weapons in this list.
I figure my persona would travel with at least one retainer/servant/peasant who would drive a horse drawn wagon/cart while I guess I'd be riding my own horse or perhaps travel in a carriage. My point is, I would like to think I'd be traveling with some of the luxuries of my station. (carpets, tables, chairs, big honkin' candlestick holders, etc).
Hope this helps some...
Royce
a little info about me may help (I hope). I don't fence or fight heavy, so I won't need to include armor/weapons in this list.
I figure my persona would travel with at least one retainer/servant/peasant who would drive a horse drawn wagon/cart while I guess I'd be riding my own horse or perhaps travel in a carriage. My point is, I would like to think I'd be traveling with some of the luxuries of my station. (carpets, tables, chairs, big honkin' candlestick holders, etc).
Hope this helps some...
Royce
-
Karen Larsdatter
- Archive Member
- Posts: 3104
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Ashburn, VA
- Contact:
Hrm. He'd probably be travelling with at least a valet or similar servant (someone who could see to it that he was properly dressed and looked after) in addition to some combination of footmen, coachmen, and/or lackeys, but I don't imagine he'd be planning to camp out midway on such a short trip, not when good money can buy him a room at an inn (and if he has the money to throw a fine carpet on the ground, I hardly think he'd be keen on roughing it).
I'd recommend checking out Pilgrimage and Travel in the Middle Ages: An Annotated Bibliography for some good sources related to this matter, and possibly also The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth as well.
An Elizabethan civilian nobleman would be more liable (IIRC) to set up a pavilion outdoors on the grounds of his own property, if he's planning some sort of outdoor entertainment (not travelling to a hunt, but rather at the hunt); there, he can have his servants put out the finer things from his house, as needed; this might be more of the context you'd be interested in, a grander show than the more utilitarian needs of a nobleman on the road. There are several paintings and embroideries depicting outdoor entertainments of various sorts -- the one that's sticking in my head is in one of the Thomasina Beck books, but I can't remember which one at the moment, though it's showing people basically sitting out on the grass, not under a pavilion.
I'd recommend checking out Pilgrimage and Travel in the Middle Ages: An Annotated Bibliography for some good sources related to this matter, and possibly also The Progresses and Public Processions of Queen Elizabeth as well.
An Elizabethan civilian nobleman would be more liable (IIRC) to set up a pavilion outdoors on the grounds of his own property, if he's planning some sort of outdoor entertainment (not travelling to a hunt, but rather at the hunt); there, he can have his servants put out the finer things from his house, as needed; this might be more of the context you'd be interested in, a grander show than the more utilitarian needs of a nobleman on the road. There are several paintings and embroideries depicting outdoor entertainments of various sorts -- the one that's sticking in my head is in one of the Thomasina Beck books, but I can't remember which one at the moment, though it's showing people basically sitting out on the grass, not under a pavilion.
-
Thomas Powers
- Archive Member
- Posts: 13112
- Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Socorro, New Mexico
I think you are still pushing modern sensabilities back on them. If he was benighted on the road and not staying at an inn or monestery I would assume that they would just "rent" a local farm house and stay there. (Note the noble lady sharing a fire in a farm house in the "tres riches heures, Feb IIRC)
It's not so long ago that staying with local foks was commonly the way to do it. My great grandmother was in her 70's the first time she had ever stayed in a motel or hotel and I remember travelling in the south as a child where we stayed with folks that rented out rooms of their house. Ozark folk tales collected in the 1930's and '40's had people staying at any farmhouse that was near when night or bad weather hit.
Thomas
It's not so long ago that staying with local foks was commonly the way to do it. My great grandmother was in her 70's the first time she had ever stayed in a motel or hotel and I remember travelling in the south as a child where we stayed with folks that rented out rooms of their house. Ozark folk tales collected in the 1930's and '40's had people staying at any farmhouse that was near when night or bad weather hit.
Thomas
-
Swordsailor
- Archive Member
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: Lexington SC
Karen: Thanks for the source suggestions. I'll check them out.
Thomas: You and Karen are both right. Your points that a 16th cent. Gentleman would make arrangements to stay indoors along a jouney are much more logical and likely than finding him (me) setting up a pavilion along the side of the road for the night.
So I must rethink what I need to do to recreate the look I want. And I could still use everyone's help and opinions. Therefore, if I go to a SCA event - and I'm not fighting or involved in a war - but want to revel in the atmosphere of a traveling Renaissance Gentleman created as accurately as possible "within my pavilion", what do I need to bring with me? How fancy would my belongings need to be? Does it matter?
My goal is not to recreate the study of my manor house cuz I think that'd look rediculous inside a pavilion out in the middle of nowheresville. My goal is to create more of a traveling study from my manor house.
I don't expect the Archive to do my research for me. But, please, can anyone provide direction or more suggestions of where I should go to find the answers? (be polite, I don't wanna go 'you-know-where'
) My local library is extremely small but there's alway Interlibrary loan...
Royce
Thomas: You and Karen are both right. Your points that a 16th cent. Gentleman would make arrangements to stay indoors along a jouney are much more logical and likely than finding him (me) setting up a pavilion along the side of the road for the night.
So I must rethink what I need to do to recreate the look I want. And I could still use everyone's help and opinions. Therefore, if I go to a SCA event - and I'm not fighting or involved in a war - but want to revel in the atmosphere of a traveling Renaissance Gentleman created as accurately as possible "within my pavilion", what do I need to bring with me? How fancy would my belongings need to be? Does it matter?
My goal is not to recreate the study of my manor house cuz I think that'd look rediculous inside a pavilion out in the middle of nowheresville. My goal is to create more of a traveling study from my manor house.
I don't expect the Archive to do my research for me. But, please, can anyone provide direction or more suggestions of where I should go to find the answers? (be polite, I don't wanna go 'you-know-where'
) My local library is extremely small but there's alway Interlibrary loan...
Royce
-
woodwose
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1360
- Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Lucerne-in-Maine, Barony of Endeweard
- Contact:
in a used bookstore a few months back I found a book you may be interested in tracking down, though its from about a century later than what your interested in, and about a dutch guy rather than english - but 17th century is closer to the 16th century than our current time so it may have some details that could be helpfull...
anyways, the book is "Memoirs of a Mercenary"... its the memoirs of some dutch guy, Johann Dietz (if I recall correctly) in the later part of the 17th century. He was a barbor sergeon for some army and traveled around europe on some campaigns that I don't remember a whole lot about, then worked on a whaling ship for a couple seasons, and traveled around a lot more before settling down... a lot of the stuff he says is rather fantastic - so kinda like period art, you have to pick through the details.
like others have said, this guy rarely camped out while traveling... after a few centuries of people traveleing the roads it seems they figured out how far people could get in a day and built inns, or turned their farms into inns; and I remember a couple times he mentioned staying with peasants, and another time he slept in a barn that he later found out was the hideout of bandits and highwaymen.
I've also an interest in 16th century hunting and camping, but not as nobility... one thing someone here told me about once was a tick, which is a bit like a huge linen pillowcase that can be stuffed with hay (or maybe dried grass, pine boughs, or dry leaves) and used as a matress.
anyways, the book is "Memoirs of a Mercenary"... its the memoirs of some dutch guy, Johann Dietz (if I recall correctly) in the later part of the 17th century. He was a barbor sergeon for some army and traveled around europe on some campaigns that I don't remember a whole lot about, then worked on a whaling ship for a couple seasons, and traveled around a lot more before settling down... a lot of the stuff he says is rather fantastic - so kinda like period art, you have to pick through the details.
like others have said, this guy rarely camped out while traveling... after a few centuries of people traveleing the roads it seems they figured out how far people could get in a day and built inns, or turned their farms into inns; and I remember a couple times he mentioned staying with peasants, and another time he slept in a barn that he later found out was the hideout of bandits and highwaymen.
I've also an interest in 16th century hunting and camping, but not as nobility... one thing someone here told me about once was a tick, which is a bit like a huge linen pillowcase that can be stuffed with hay (or maybe dried grass, pine boughs, or dry leaves) and used as a matress.
-
Karen Larsdatter
- Archive Member
- Posts: 3104
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Ashburn, VA
- Contact:
Re: Help requested - I'm researching a late 16th cent. camp
Just following up here (because I'm not sure if Royce got the email I sent him, or if other people might still be interested in this subject):
Portrait of Sir Anthony Mildmay by Nicholas Hilliard, c. 1585
Portrait of Sir Anthony Mildmay by Nicholas Hilliard, c. 1585
