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Marshal · Post by **Marshal** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 3:46 am

Not sure if this belongs here or in the armour forum, but:

Has anyone ever seen this? Does it represent a workable idea, or is it an artistic conceit? And if real, how the heck would it be made?

http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/R003-2.jpg

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:34 am

Workable. It's a collar of medium-sized rings with little flaps of smaller rings attached.

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 6:46 am

That on a rigid piece of leather would make a sexy gorget.

Marshal · Post by **Marshal** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 8:44 am

It looks to me as though there are flaps going up from the bottom edge as well, underneath the upper dags. Sort of like stalagtites covering stalagmites. Or are the apparent segments of the bottom half of the collar representative of folds or wrinkles in a uniform layer of mail?

The dags are easy, but if there are also flaps below them that's three layers of mail in places...

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 12:49 pm

The Gothic Eye site reveals this to be the effigy of Sir Ralph Fitzherbert, obit. 1433.

It seems to me this decor might be a form of armorial display, especially if the dags were gilt. The arms of Fitzherbert are "Argent a chief vairy Or and gules, over all a bendlet sable".

http://www.heraldry.jerasys.com/England ... bert_t.jpg

The arms and legs have a peculiar spiral fluting which might be taken to mimic the bendlet, and the dagged standard could represent the vairy chief.

Perhaps you should contact these fellows, who have already done a bit of work with the Fitzherbert efigy?

http://www.studio88.co.uk/englyshe_plate_armorie.html

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Oct 05, 2004 4:17 pm

Marshal wrote:Not sure if this belongs here or in the armour forum, but:

Has anyone ever seen this? Does it represent a workable idea, or is it an artistic conceit? And if real, how the heck would it be made?

http://www.gothiceye.com/images/large/R003-2.jpg

Yes, it could (and can) be done. Applique work of mail on mail, (usually gilt latten from the paintings) can be seen in 15th century art in full colour - the Trinity Chapel "Military Saint" altatpiece is an excellent example, showing siad appliques of triangles to sabatons. At some point Erik Schmid is turning out copies for me, and he has successfully done similar work before.

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