The Armour Archive

meaddrinker wrote:You know....Now don't take this wrong but I was just wondering why it would annoy you so bad that someone would wear a kilt in the SCA? I mean who does it hurt?

Those who are trying to have a truly "medieval" experience, I would think.

Albrecht von Arnsperg wrote:

meaddrinker wrote:You know....Now don't take this wrong but I was just wondering why it would annoy you so bad that someone would wear a kilt in the SCA? I mean who does it hurt?

Those who are trying to have a truly "medieval" experience, I would think.

So is this at "SCA ONLY" events or where the public is welcome?

Well...in one case, you're ruining the feel of a person who wishes to immerse imself in medieval surroundings for a period of time. In the other, you're misrepresenting the Middle Ages to the unsuspecting public.

Or are you asking about a member of the public that wanders in while wearing a kilt?

Or are you asking about a member of the public that wanders in while wearing a kilt?[/quote]

What would be the dif.?

So why would you want to wear a kilt at an SCA event? Do you want to perpetuate misinformation? Do you like lying?

If you want to play in a fantasy pseudo-scottish world, go join a live action D&D LARP.

Josh_Warren wrote:So why would you want to wear a kilt at an SCA event? Do you want to perpetuate misinformation? Do you like lying?

If you want to play in a fantasy pseudo-scottish world, go join a live action D&D LARP.

DO you not read the whole thread before you reply to them? Where do you see that I want to wear a KILT?!?

meaddrinker wrote:Or are you asking about a member of the public that wanders in while wearing a kilt?

What would be the dif.?[/quote]


the difference is, a member of the "reinactment group" should know better, and not do it, and a member of the general public isnt likely to be wearing one in the first place unless this is a SCA event in Scottland.

Thread derailed here ---> To that end, rapier is about as appropriate as a kilt is


back on topic ----> Most likely people wearing kilts are those that done know any better and picked it up off of Ren Fests, Highlander and Braveheart. hence the LARP reference made by Josh.

A very interesting thread.

"Scots (who are called that because it was the Roman term for Irish btw "

Were not the Scots the Scotii from what is now Northern Ireland, I didn't know that it was a generic term.

Hi there,

Just to add that there is no evidence at all that Scottish clothing or armour was 'behind' that of England during any part of the middle ages. The "highland' and "Lowland destinction is true, but would be somewhat fuzzy. Would the people from Perth be Highlanders or Lowlanders? Would the local gentry from Moray be any less up on the cultural and millitary advances than those from Aberdeen? I would say that on balance it appears that it was not the case. Only the 'lower' social classes in teh Highlands would have looked diferent to the lower social classes in the lowlands.

I can dig up some evidence when I get home at the end of the month. I'm in Cincinnati right now!

re: Scots being from Ireland. Read Ewan Campbells book published by Historic Scotalnd /Canongate for a fresh and I think more accurate picture of events in the west of Scotland during the period c.300 - 800 AD

From
http://www.traveldirectorynet.co.uk/boo ... Kings.html

"Archaeological evidence has become available regarding the arrival of the kingdom of the Dalriada, the first kingdom of the Scots. This text, part of "The Making of Scotland" series, describes its influence and the impact that the Ionian community had on culture and religion after A.D. 503."


ISBN:
0862418747
Format:
paperback
Price:
£ 6.00 Publisher:
Birlinn Limited
Edinburgh - UK
Publication date:
1999-06-01

Its a good introduction by one of the top Histarch's in the field.

WOW, I feel smarter allready!! Thanks for all of the good info!

A 12th century Highland Scot would be indistinguishable from an Irishman of the same period. As has been mentioned before the Scots came from Northern Ireland and carved out a kingdom (the Dal Raida) that came to conquer the Picts and form Scotland. In the 12th century, prior to the English invasion and the “Church Reforms,â€Â

Charles,

Be careful with getting the history to neatly pigeon-holed. The evidence for the 'conquest' of the Picts by the Dal Riata is sketchy at best. It looks more likely that over time, the ruling families (not clans btw) of both the Dal Riata (who are not mentiond in Irsh annals after the 8th Century), and the Picts (who are mentioned right up until the mid 9th, from then on called Kings of Alba) merged together or were killed off. The Irish connection is not proven at all, and purley based on archaeology it looks more like there was movment in the OTHER direction. However, the picture is not as clear as it could be.

One other ting to bear in mind. 'Alba' (as the area now called Scotland was called then) was in the process of adding Lothian and the borders to make up the Scotland we know now. It was in this period that many Kings start to base themselves in what is now northern England (Carslie for example).

In northern and north western Scotland, the Norse were the main cultural power. IN teh Central highlands, who knows? Its likely that very little had changed in the central highlands since the since c. 5-6th century. William I of Scotland would be the first big change, as his tightning of power away from the Mormaers brought the central area into the main fold of Scottish lowland power. He was not around till the mid/late 12th century.

I do know that as late as the 16th century the cultural links between Ireland and the Highlands still existed. Both Elizabeth I and James VI did their darnness to suppress both the bardic and Brehon schools. The scholarly language of both areas was the frozen 12th century Irish Gaelic even if the spoken language had gone to various dialects by then.

16th century is not my area of expertise, what sort of evidence is there for the retention of middle Irish during this period, and what evidence is there for attempts to suppress it?

Again though, be specific where in the "Highlands' you mean! Big area, lots of different cultural backgrounds. For example, there is very little, if any Irish influence around the Firthlands ( aprox Inverness-Nairn-Golspie).

Also, what is applicable in the 16th is not necessarily applicable to the 12th. When did they start using the middle Irish in the area you are meaning?

This is a good thread!