article on 14 cen rebrace (LONG)(review and comments please)

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:04 am

Hi all.

I appriciate all of the suggestions I have recieved thus far. I have decided to take it off of the web for now.

For all of you whom have taken the time to read it and provide helpful suggestions, I greatly appriciate your time and efforts.

Trevor · Post by **Trevor** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:47 am

Who is your audience for this paper?

Also, there are pictures of very similar decorative motifs in the Museum of London's Knives and Scabbards book. Would be good supporting documentation for the decoration.

You are correct in that Italian decoration is more floral. In AAOTMK there is a silver altarpiece which shows several assumedly cuir boili breastplates that are highly embossed.

Personally, I think the guy that suggested that the embossing tools supplied the heat was full of it, though admittedly I haven't tried it. (I doubt that he did, either.) I would think that the heat applied during embossing would distort the pattern.

Thanks for the piece-I am looking forward to trying out some hardening techniques myself! Do you think a commercial heat gun would be a good option for a heat source?

Mike F · Post by **Mike F** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:54 am

Not that I know overly much about the subject matter, but I like it. It;s informative and well-said.

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:59 am

Trevor wrote:Personally, I think the guy that suggested that the embossing tools supplied the heat was full of it, though admittedly I haven't tried it. (I doubt that he did, either.) I would think that the heat applied during embossing would distort the pattern.

I'm not sure if Mr. Blaire attempted this technique or not. His paper was written in 1972 and I haven't been able to find examples of his other works or his substantiating evidence for this technique. I'm not certain how the embossing tools would be held to the piece while tooling, anything other than direct manual handling of the embossing stamps would seem to be akward and less percise. I also think that heated embossing tools would scorch the leather, but having never tried this technique, I do not know for certain. The more I think of it, the more I am tempted to either remove this information from the paper or find substantiating evidence for the technique.

Trevor wrote:Thanks for the piece-I am looking forward to trying out some hardening techniques myself! Do you think a commercial heat gun would be a good option for a heat source?

If the temprature is adjustable, I would think that it would be a good method. However, getting consistent results throughout the entire piece would be problematic. An oven provides more consistent heat throughout the entire piece.

Edited to protect possible copyright problems.

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:56 am

Post deleted

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:21 pm

Trevor wrote:...Thanks for the piece-I am looking forward to trying out some hardening techniques myself! Do you think a commercial heat gun would be a good option for a heat source?

I have tried this...don't. Unless you have excellent control and infinite patience you will either underheat or scorch the leather and probably do both in various places on the piece. A standard oven and a piece of wood for a tray are your best tools for evenly applying heat.

Dan, nice article. I am concerned that your footnotes and bibliography citations are too brief. Please add identifying numbers like ISBN or ISSN, URLs for online content, or other information to make it easier for others to review your sources. Where, if anywhere, has the Beabey and Richardson article been published? There are standard forms for these citations...Mord could probably help you more than I with the particulars.

Maelgwyn

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:38 am

I want to see this article.

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 2:52 am

House of the Wolf wrote:[I also think that heated embossing tools would scorch the leather, but having never tried this technique, I do not know for certain.

I'm not sure of his name, but the former? Baron of the Steppes in Ansteorra made the leather jerkin in Janet Arnold's Elizabethan book using a woodburner to get the lines. The tool marks were virtually identical. It is more a matter of temperature, than the tool. The leather doesn't know whether you used an electric heat source, or a wood/coal heat source, only the temperature.

Uilleag · Post by **Uilleag** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:03 am

Alcyoneus wrote:
House of the Wolf wrote:[I also think that heated embossing tools would scorch the leather, but having never tried this technique, I do not know for certain.

I'm not sure of his name, but the former? Baron of the Steppes in Ansteorra made the leather jerkin in Janet Arnold's Elizabethan book using a woodburner to get the lines. The tool marks were virtually identical. It is more a matter of temperature, than the tool. The leather doesn't know whether you used an electric heat source, or a wood/coal heat source, only the temperature.

If you look at pictures of the original rerebrace you will not see evidence of burning or scorching tools. All that is visible is the embossing.

Heated tools may very well have been used in period, but I do not believe that to be the case with this one.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Sun Jan 23, 2005 7:52 pm

Vitus wrote:I want to see this article.

The article will be online content for the Armour Research Society in the near future. I believe. Dan has done some great work and has some very valid new theories on an old and infrequently travelled subject. It was at my suggestion that he took the article down. I felt he should be credited with the effort and ideas in notable published format. Some of the information that he has uncovered is not well known and we felt he should be properly credited for his discoveries/theories. Posting his discoveries on an open forum, while a good thing for the masses, undermines any chance Dan has to make a name for himself in the areas needed to gain access to additional information that will benefit his overall goal.

If the subject matter and access is available, a version of it may very well be published in the ARS Journal in '06/07. This is Dan's ultimate goal, I believe. Unfortunately, the limited amount of information available on the subject of leather armour leaves a LOT of knowledge uncovered. This is a monumental effort that Dan is undertaking... but the potential fruit is abundant. We hope to continue supporting him in his goal.

BTW: the rerebrace that Dan has recently completed will be on display the 29th in Burlington, Wisconsin!