The Armour Archive

Footwear: I believe in the Appin Regiment, a Scottish Jacobite reenactment group in the Washington, DC, area, there's at least one person who wears bare feet at events, explaining that the poorer Highlanders didn't often wear shoes in the summer.

Modern health and safety: Reenactor blacksmiths and woodworkers whom I've seen don't wear shop goggles or dust masks, nor would I expect them to. Are they taking any risks in this?

Not an anachronism per se but a puzzle: Matthew Amt's Legio XX Roman reenactment group, based in Maryland, has very high standards for clothing and equipment. However, they have several *bearded* legionaries, including a good friend of mine. Does anyone know the Legio's official policy on authentic personal appearance?

Modern health and safety: Reenactor blacksmiths and woodworkers whom I've seen don't wear shop goggles or dust masks, nor would I expect them to. Are they taking any risks in this?

SUre they are. But we are legally allowed to "Take risks". I'd say a skydiver, even with ALL the safety equipment possible, takes a hell of a lot more risk than a medieval woodworker.

One think to keep in mind about woodworking.. "modern" woodworking requires goggles mainly because the RPM's on the tools are in the thousands range.. they hurl stuff at your face, and if they break you are looking at high speed machine steel.

period woodworking tools cannot achieve that sort of velocity, and they don't create the kind of chips that are a danger.. even a medieval lathe only spins so fast.. because it is human powered.

Blacksmithing I'm not so sure about.. but if you do it carefully.. I have done it in court garb and survived.

Maeryk

Flittie wrote:Not an anachronism per se but a puzzle: Matthew Amt's Legio XX Roman reenactment group, based in Maryland, has very high standards for clothing and equipment. However, they have several *bearded* legionaries, including a good friend of mine. Does anyone know the Legio's official policy on authentic personal appearance?

Some groups overlook the facial hair issue. We prefer shaved faces with Grey's but don't require it. Shaved faces were in but beards so up in art from time to time.

You would not happen to be going to Roman days would you Frittie?

Ya - most facial hair in the late medieval period art is on elderly men. We have 3 guys with beards that I'd like to see shaven, but at least they are very short-trimmed and not some other historically-associated styles like van-Dykes or such.

You could also point out hair styles as non-period. Ideally, many of us should have shoulder-length hair. Even if I wanted to have that hair style, there's no way would I pull that off in a professional DoD work environment.

I know several men who have styled their everyday coiffures to depict the styles of their most-loved periods. Bob Giglio of the ECWSA King's Lifeguard springs to mind.

I have been cutting my hair to 1939 specs, and have costume facial hair and a wig for 1642. Looks pretty good when I wear it.

More on topic - I often go barefoot when wearing C16 Irish kit. I have tough feet, so it's not a problem. Makes Kass nervous.

The Appins are a very, very good group, run by a pal o' mine.

Jeff J wrote:Even if I wanted to have that hair style, there's no way would I pull that off in a professional DoD work environment.

Though I have seen contractors get away with it.

What time period are van dykes associated with?

Thanks!

Late C16 through mid C17.

Tristan vom Schwarzwald wrote:What time period are van dykes associated with?

Early 17th Century English & 1950's Beatnick

Brewer looks great in his 1939 haircut.

I wear my hair short... and have the house of wigs...

I have done the barefoot Scot at events too.

Cheers,

DT

Jeff J wrote:

Tristan vom Schwarzwald wrote:What time period are van dykes associated with?

Early 17th Century English & 1950's Beatnick

And 1990's/early 21c general wear.

I think Giuliana would lose her mind if I shaved my face clean.

Not that I want to.

Kevin wrote:

Jeff J wrote:

Tristan vom Schwarzwald wrote:What time period are van dykes associated with?

Early 17th Century English & 1950's Beatnick

And 1990's/early 21c general wear.

I think Giuliana would lose her mind if I shaved my face clean.

Not that I want to.

I thought you had a goatee... Ah well. Ya know, you gotta surprise the wife now and then...

(OT - You at Sapphire this weekend?)

Kevin wrote:
I think Giuliana would lose her mind if I shaved my face clean.

I don't know her, but some women are pleasantly surprised at how nice a clean shaven face can be...

Jeff, Kevin will be there, I think he's hosting the AA get together...

I am currently growing out my hair and beard in anticipation of the Scythian/Sarmatian impression. Mind you, I have done this before, and my wife approves. Back when Last of the Mohicans came out starring Daniel Day Lewis, I had an annual late 18th century event I attended and I thought it would be cool to have my hair long instead of wearing a wig. So...I let my hair grow and grow until it was down onto my shoulders. It looked pretty cool but I got tired of it eventually and cut it short again.

My wife is skeptical about how long I will grow it this time. It takes me about 3 years to get to to chest length---which is what I am going for (although I am already looking pretty shaggy and in keeping with at least ---some--- images of Scythians). One thing about long hair or beard---if you get tired of it there's a quick cure!

In the meantime, for WWI French (the other main period I am currently involved with) I will wrap up the hair and wear a head bandage over it. That's a pretty effective way of covering it. While beards were not the norm for French WWI soldiers, you do see them make an appearance here and there in photographs.

Tim

Jeff J wrote:Ya - most facial hair in the late medieval period art is on elderly men. We have 3 guys with beards that I'd like to see shaven, but at least they are very short-trimmed and not some other historically-associated styles like van-Dykes or such.

Oops... I will keep working on getting my husband out for your crew, but if I hear pressure about him shaving his beard I'll be clapping my hands over his ears and yelling "LA LA LA!"

He's definitely *not* "elderly," but he might count as "older," though...

-Wendy/Sabine

Jeff J wrote:I thought you had a goatee... Ah well. Ya know, you gotta surprise the wife now and then...

(OT - You at Sapphire this weekend?)

Well, you tell me... I could be wrong on the definition. Looks like Van Dykes are defined to be pointed, and mine's not. But then, I always think of a goatee as being on the chin only, and not anywhere on the front (and usually no moustache). Various searches haven't turned up pictures and labels of beards... still looking.

This is me: [img]http://thornbury.diaryland.com/images/kevin-100x100.gif[/img]
(Though I have the verticals trimmed more to the edge of my moustache now.)

Charlotte J wrote:I don't know her, but some women are pleasantly surprised at how nice a clean shaven face can be...

Jeff, Kevin will be there, I think he's hosting the AA get together...

I can ask her, but she's seen pictures of me without...

Er, yyyyeah.... I will be at Sapphire Joust tomorrow. And all the AA folks are welcome to visit my pavilion on the field.

<--- Look for my banner

http://www.beards.org/collegiate002.html

Apparently what I have is a "goatee and moustache". I sit corrected.

I usually wear some sort of unobtrusive eye protection when blacksmithing, as well as a leather apron and anything else I think appropriate. Some guys do it an a pair of tights (...just the tights!) too.

As the late, lamented Paw Paw Wilson used to say: "You can walk with a wooden leg, but you can't see out of a wooden eye!"

At MTA the judges consider safety glasses as "invisible" and we even got some extra points for them at a "metal-mashing" demonstration. When people ask, I tell them that they weren't used in that period, but no one was much disturbed by one-eyed blacksmiths, either.

Kevin wrote:http://www.beards.org/collegiate002.html

Apparently what I have is a "goatee and moustache". I sit corrected.

I don't agree with that orginizations definitions - they do not match the 19th century ones used when the styles were last most commonly worn by adult males in Western Society.

If you look to van Dykes work, or your average 17th century painting of a 'cavalier', what is seen is a moustache with the ends standing proud from the face, and a chin tuft, commonly unconnected to the moustach, but sometimes lightly connected. The Imperial was worn and popularised by Naoplean III (the Second Empire - hence "Imperial"), and that matches what they call a van Dyke more closely than anything else. The ends of the moustache were often waxed to stand proud of the beard, but they were generally connected.

What you are wearing is the maximum facial hair allowed a Federal soldier during the War between the States, and it is enshrined in military regs of the day as being an "Imperial".

chef de chambre wrote:it is enshrined in military regs of the day as being an "Imperial".

KEVIN'S AN IMPERIALIST!

Named, I think, after Napoleon III

Damn. I didn't know Paw-paw died. He was a great demo guy.

Me? I ware gloves and safety glasses no matter what. Just concider it the same as gauntlet's on a Pict. Something ya just gotta do.

Miscellaneous observations regarding the Anachronism thread

The person who hate sunglasses the most... has them on in his avatar

The most worried about large women in just a undergarment and no support up top... has the phrase "Listen to this part..she says "I'm horny horny horny".. what do you think that's a metaphor for?"

The person who dislikes living history groups and events the most... has never been to one.

Nobody ever seems to respond to my posts because:

If they are on the East Coast ... I'm from the West Coast...

If they are from the West Coast... it's because I'm in Alaska

or wait a minute... it might just be the fact that I'm just inane...

Muhahahah

Oops... I will keep working on getting my husband out for your crew, but if I hear pressure about him shaving his beard I'll be clapping my hands over his ears and yelling "LA LA LA!"

That's what Jenny says, too. The facial hair is an issue for me, bboth RevWar and Roman. In both cases, we justify it by (for the Roman) being in the field and unable to shave (documentable, IIRC), and trim it tight down for the Rev (fortunately, the 11th PA is pretty flexible about it). I have quite long hair, which is actually perfect for the RevWar stuff, that I have to hide for Roman (another reason I am moving to an Auxillary impression).

Jenny, on the other hand, has very short hair, but it easy enough to hide that fact with a bonnet or hat.

David Teague wrote:Miscellaneous observations regarding the Anachronism thread

The person who hate sunglasses the most... has them on in his avatar

The most worried about large women in just a undergarment and no support up top... has the phrase "Listen to this part..she says "I'm horny horny horny".. what do you think that's a metaphor for?"

The person who dislikes living history groups and events the most... has never been to one.

Nobody ever seems to respond to my posts because:

If they are on the East Coast ... I'm from the West Coast...

If they are from the West Coast... it's because I'm in Alaska

or wait a minute... it might just be the fact that I'm just inane...

Muhahahah

Nah, we love ya Dave, it's just you picked the wrong century...

Flittie wrote:Not an anachronism per se but a puzzle: Matthew Amt's Legio XX Roman reenactment group, based in Maryland, has very high standards for clothing and equipment. However, they have several *bearded* legionaries, including a good friend of mine. Does anyone know the Legio's official policy on authentic personal appearance?

Avete!

Well, the policy should be buried in there somewhere! Honestly don't know how clearly it's spelled out for hair and facial hair, though it does officially discourage spiked green mohawks. (Bylaws and Philosphy section.)

In our period, nearly half of all legionaries were provincials, and had never been to Italy or Rome. They grew up in the provinces, and as long as they were citizens they could join the legions. (Auxiliaries didn't even have to be citizens, and usually weren't.) For a basic pictoral source, half the legionaries on Trajan's Column have beards! Granted, that's a little later than us, but it is recorded by Tacitus that the residents of Rome were shocked by the barbaric appearance of the legionaries who showed up there during the civil wars of 68-69 AD.

Since we can't even prove a uniform tunic color, I'm not about to try to enforce some sort of stereotyped hair regulation! No evidence for anything like that. So a proper Roman haircut will be applauded, but is not required.

That answer the question? (It's a perfectly good one, no offense taken!)

Valete

Matthew/Quintus, Legio XX

PS: Hey, Owen, you still owe me 16 bucks for those belt plates! And I have your cloak hostage, muahahaha!

chef de chambre wrote:

David Teague wrote:Miscellaneous observations regarding the Anachronism thread

The person who hate sunglasses the most... has them on in his avatar

The most worried about large women in just a undergarment and no support up top... has the phrase "Listen to this part..she says "I'm horny horny horny".. what do you think that's a metaphor for?"

The person who dislikes living history groups and events the most... has never been to one.

Nobody ever seems to respond to my posts because:

If they are on the East Coast ... I'm from the West Coast...

If they are from the West Coast... it's because I'm in Alaska

or wait a minute... it might just be the fact that I'm just inane...

Muhahahah

Nah, we love ya Dave, it's just you picked the wrong century...

Ah.. er... which one? (I do a number of impressions even the 1400's )

Oh wait... maybe this is the wrong century... (just don't tell Matthew Amt how you feel... )

David Teague wrote:Miscellaneous observations regarding the Anachronism thread

The person who hate sunglasses the most... has them on in his avatar

I know it's difficult to tell from the icon, Dave, but that's me in my guise as a 21st century resident of the United States, a middle-class civilian man in casual/oudoor attire. My information says that sunglasses are appropriate for the impression I have chosen.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/finkas/DSC02877.jpg[/img]

Cheers,
Tim

Timothy_D_Finkas wrote:

David Teague wrote:Miscellaneous observations regarding the Anachronism thread

The person who hate sunglasses the most... has them on in his avatar

I know it's difficult to tell from the icon, Dave, but that's me in my guise as a 21st century resident of the United States, a middle-class civilian man in casual/oudoor attire.

Cheers,
Tim

Tim... my post was written with a sense of humor... never meant to offend.. and it was amusing to me... but that is the way I look at the world as a whole. ( Yes, even the approprate Emoticons has em on... )

Best Wishes,

David

Of course, Dave...

Timothy_D_Finkas wrote:I know it's difficult to tell from the icon, Dave, but that's me in my guise as a 21st century resident of the United States, a middle-class civilian man in casual/oudoor attire. My information says that sunglasses are appropriate for the impression I have chosen.
Cheers,
Tim

It must be tedious trying to decide which newstand 'documentation' is the most accurate.

Alcyoneus wrote:

Timothy_D_Finkas wrote:I know it's difficult to tell from the icon, Dave, but that's me in my guise as a 21st century resident of the United States, a middle-class civilian man in casual/oudoor attire. My information says that sunglasses are appropriate for the impression I have chosen.
Cheers,
Tim

It must be tedious trying to decide which newstand 'documentation' is the most accurate.

Newsweek... of course. They are never wrong.

A few groups do use safety glasses when blacksmithing. Wolves of Wodan do on a regular basis.

I don't wear safety glasses but that's only because it follows with my personal preference for not wearing them while while hammering.

While I don't know any groups that have hair length/style requirements written into their group's code, I DO know of several 'Progressive' Rev War groups who were considering it. What it ended up boiling down to was that while their members were willing to take the step of growing their hair long, too many felt that it would conflict with their employers' dress codes. So, they dropped it as a group rule but, those that could grow their hair long would.

BTW the most authentic Rev War groups seem to be using the term "Progressive" to denote their willingness to go beyond the typical levels of authenticity. I thought this was a neat use of the word. It certainly has a positive connotation that "strict", "authenti-nazi", and "Period-Police" just don't have.

at large events I will tonsure my hair and often times if the ground is soft walk around with bare feet, or sandals if the ground is rough. period haircuts like the tonsure and the norman hair cut are not that hard to do, you just have to be willing to start from scratch after each event.

The most worried about large women in just a undergarment and no support up top... has the phrase "Listen to this part..she says "I'm horny horny horny".. what do you think that's a metaphor for?"

Hey now.. I'm quite happily married.. and unlike a sizeable percentage of the SCA.. NOT looking to cut a slice on the side..

Plus, it's a SOUTH PARK QUOTE!

Maeryk

Timothy_D_Finkas wrote:

David Teague wrote:Miscellaneous observations regarding the Anachronism thread

The person who hate sunglasses the most... has them on in his avatar

I know it's difficult to tell from the icon, Dave, but that's me in my guise as a 21st century resident of the United States, a middle-class civilian man in casual/oudoor attire. My information says that sunglasses are appropriate for the impression I have chosen.

Hey Tim!

I've found your club!

http://www.kaos.org.nz/parties/20Cball.php#organized