The Armour Archive

Is there documentation for jacks (the armor kind) in the latter half of the 16th century in Western Europe being made all of leather, as well as of canvas? Where could I find out more?

Thank you for your assistance.

Sorry to recussitate such an ancient thread here, but I thought I would at least answer this forthright question, since I discovered it while perusing some of the older threads here.

There is a great quote out of Sir Charles W.C. Oman's History of the Art of War in the 16th Century concerning the French Wars of Religion. In it Oman is discussing the relative merits of the two factions, Huguenot and Catholic, and takes this from d’Aubigné. The anonymous speaker is a Huguenot now prisoner of the Catholics, after the battle of Dreux in 1562, as I recall.

There are 18 cornets supposed to consist of 80 troopers apiece. In mine there were 75: some are much larger; but the one supporting mine had only 40 or 45. The ranks behind the flag of this unit are filled up with men who have only buff coats and pistols: of gentlemen wearing cuirasses and closed helms, and with horses worth 50 gold crowns, there are, except in the very largest cornets, not more than ten or a dozen. These are called the ‘gens de combat’, and these decide the day

So to answer the first part of your question, yes, leather jacks/buff coats WERE indeed used as armour in Western Europe in the latter half of the 16th Century. For more though, check out Janet Arnold's fine book Paterns of Fashion, 1560-1620 for examples from the late 16th/early 17th Centuries.

I hope this is of some service to you,

Cheers,

Gordon

(Oman, Sir Charles W. C. History of the Art of War in the 16th Century, p 406; footnote from d’Aubigné, p 215.)

Hello Flittie,

It depends what you mean by "jack" as by the mid 1500's you could find 2 types of garments used as body protection in the UK that would be called a Jack... the padded jack: a multi-layered soft garment, and the jack of plate:a garment made with plates of bone, horn, or iron sewn in overlapping plates.

The buff coat that is mentioned in the above quote is a differant garment. It's just a very heavy leather coat with no padding. Not a jack at all.

Here is a quote from Paul Wagner on his site on how to make a Highland Cotun (gameson/aketon) on what his research turned up.



[quote]THE HIGHLAND COTUN

By Paul Wagner

Despite common perception, armour was in fact not uncommon in the Highlands up until the 17th century, at least for the elite of the clan warriors. There are a number of written references describing Highland armour:

1) In 1322, at the seige of Roxburgh, Donald of the Isles came with a great body of men "armed in the Highland fashion, with habergions, bows and axes", indicating mail was the common form of Highland armour.

2) The description of John, 10th Lord of the Isles, from 1498 in the Red book of Clanranald lists a mail coat “well meshed, light, of substantial steel, beautifully wrought, worn over a “fine tunic, beautifully embroideredâ€Â

In the 16th century, a quilted fabric defence---might--- be augmented by a skin of leather as the outer layer to as many as 30 interior laters of fabric,.

Another 16th century configuration is small plates (i.e. an inch square or smaller?) sewn inside, giving a characteristic stitching effect on the exterior (see below). I believe the skin can be leather. The plates can be metal or horn.

Howard accounts, 15thc mention a doublet of fence covered in deer skin.

But jacks are quilted and buff coats are not.


But leather jacks certainly did exist, they make great vessels to drink from

Timothy D. Finkas wrote:In the 16th century, a quilted fabric defence---might--- be augmented by a skin of leather as the outer layer to as many as 30 interior laters of fabric,.

Another 16th century configuration is small plates (i.e. an inch square or smaller?) sewn inside, giving a characteristic stitching effect on the exterior (see below). I believe the skin can be leather. The plates can be metal or horn.

Yup, there is that cool extant one shown in several of my books like this.

It might be shown in the Osprey Spanish Armada book, but I can't recall which of my costume books I've seen in it. Its in several and has a sueded leather outer layer.

Didn't you make one of these once Tim?

Juliana

Nope, I always wanted to. Peter Farquhar made one and did a nice job on it---maybe you are thinking of his? He clipped the plates out of steel strapping tape.

Funny thing is he put a brass grommet (hidden?) in the center of each scale to help prevent the thread from being sliced by the rough edge of a hole in the metal. I though such a move was a lot of work for something hidden and not documentable/historically accurate. <shrug>

FrauHirsch wrote: Yup, there is that cool extant one shown in several of my books like this.

It might be shown in the Osprey Spanish Armada book, but I can't recall which of my costume books I've seen in it. Its in several and has a sueded leather outer layer.

Hello Juliana,

Are you sure the extant one has a leather shell, or is it a flax shell? (Flax being a strong canvas like fabric made from the short fibers produced from the flax plant when making linen. It can look leather like in photos or period art.)

If you do make one with leather, don't use a suede as it won't have the textile strength of a smooth side skin... IMO. I had to restrap my Roman Segmetata this last year as the manufacturer had used vegetable tanned leather that was suede... it (and 3 others we have ) fell apart with in a few hours of wear....

Stick with Flax, linen, or finished hides.

Cheers,

DT

Tim Finkas, where did that picture come from? It's quite different from the "jack of plates" picture I've seen in Foulkes, the Osprey book on the Border Reivers, and the Borderers reenactment group website (http://www.theborderers.info/bodydefences3.html). In the picture in Foulkes and elsewhere, the plates are slightly larger, overlap, and are laced together from center hole to center hole, not sewn at the corners as well. The picture on the Borderers website is supposed to be based on a jack at the Royal Armouries. Is your picture based on a different jack?

I apologize for my original mistake concerning the word "jack." I realize now that I meant "jerkin," as in "buff jerkin."

Flittie. The drawing is mine own creation based on things I read. It is essentially the same as the construction drawing on the Border Rievers website. In theirs, the plates overlap like shingles, while in mine it is a simple 2 layer arrangement. But the effect is the same---two layers of plate material in any one place. Would the shingle arrangement make for better flexibility? I don't know...but it might.

In my pattern, the layers are offset by half a plate horizontally and vertically. The clipped corners of each plate furnishes a hole where four plates meet. SO when one row is offset by half a plate, the hole made by the four meeting clipped corners sits over or under a hole drilled through the center of the plate. It's the same concept...or am I missing something?

Cheers,
Tim

Have you thought about making a small section of a jack of plates based on your diagram to see how flexible it would be? Also, would your construction method require more plates than the shingle method? If so, would the jack end up being heavier?

Mark Goodman of the Tudor Group has made one, a beautiful piece of work and a pain in the arse to make apparently, ie muchos laboros.

But annoyingly it does not appear on their web site.

I had the pleasure of handling the metal plated garment.

http://www.tudorgroup.co.uk

maybe an email to Mark might elicit some handy tips.

Flittie wrote:Have you thought about making a small section of a jack of plates based on your diagram to see how flexible it would be? Also, would your construction method require more plates than the shingle method? If so, would the jack end up being heavier?

The method I depicted in my earlier illustration (a) uses the same number of plates as the one from the Reivers site (b), so same thickness, same weight. Like I said, perhaps (b) is more flexible, but I can't say for sure.

If I ever decide to make one, i'd make a small test patch as you suggested. However, I am not looking to make one anytime soon...

Not to rescucitate a dead horse, but is Dreux the earliest buff-coat reference of which folks here are aware? I'm on a medieval reference for my region, but then there seems to be a gap of a hundred-some years before they show up all over Europe...

David Teague wrote:Hello Juliana,

Are you sure the extant one has a leather shell, or is it a flax shell? (Flax being a strong canvas like fabric made from the short fibers produced from the flax plant when making linen. It can look leather like in photos or period art.)

If you do make one with leather, don't use a suede as it won't have the textile strength of a smooth side skin... IMO. I had to restrap my Roman Segmetata this last year as the manufacturer had used vegetable tanned leather that was suede... it (and 3 others we have ) fell apart with in a few hours of wear....

Stick with Flax, linen, or finished hides.

Cheers,

DT

David, the extant garment we are referring has an outer layer of sueded leather. This is fairly commonly used in period. At this time, I don't know if I've seen documentation on finished hide being used as the outer layer for a 16th c Jack (meaning a jacket-like cloth armor that sometimes had internal rigid plates). The examples of leather garments (like the arming doublet) in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion are often sueded leather as well. None are 100% leather, but have a leather exterior, internally there are multiple layers of linen cloth (what you refer to as flax) and sometimes stuffed with cotton or wool.

Tim and I were referring to an actual garment that is still in existance (refered to as "extant"). I've seen it in several different books discussing 16th c warfare or costuming.

I would agree with you and would not recommend sueded leather for straps, but this is a quilted jacket. Other garments were made from sueded leather in the 16th c, such as pants, doublets, hats and gloves. There are quite a few extant pieces using sueded leather, as well as noted in tailor's records and inventories from the period.

Juliana

Hello Juliana,

Thank you for the reply, I am aware of the meaning of extant.

I had the good fortune to see a extant jack'o plate (the type of 16th jack made with plates of iron, horn or bone) up close when I was in England and Scotland in 1999.

It was made of bleached coarse linen, heavy flax thread, and was tailored in the pot bellied (Peascod)fashion of the era... way cool as it was very minty. I was not allowed to take photo's.... I culd just get lost in the thread pattern... My understanding is 7 layers of cloth under the plate is a common amount for the style, up to 30 layers for a padded jack.

My study of Scottish history often shows earlier forms of padded garments such as the cotun being covered with deerskin and pitch to waterproof (just don't stand to close to the fire, Laddie... ) them.

All of my aketons and jacks are linen based except for one I made with cowhide cover for work with live steel.

I'm under the impression that a jack'o plate will take the same kind of time and labor as a nice 15th century brigadine.

Have fun if you make one, take progress pictures, and share the knowlege.

Cheers,

DT

Elizabethan jerkins:

http://www.silvertyne.com/gallery2/v/ho ... 4.jpg.html

Jack of Plates, similar time (can't read the caption from work to get the exact date)

http://www.silvertyne.com/gallery2/v/ho ... 8.jpg.html

-- Charles

Hello Charles,

I took a peek and all three are "jack'o plates" ( You can tell by the telltail stitching patterns) .

Two are made with a flax/linen shell just like the one I saw at Warrick .

The one on the left in the photo below looks rather "odd' and I'm not sure what the shell is made from.

[img]http://www.silvertyne.com/gallery2/d/25 ... es-134.jpg[/img]

Leather or cloth?

Cheers,

DT