Gambeson channel stuffings....

[David Teague]

Hello All,

I've made both the layered aketon and the channel stuffed aketon and after doing so, I feel the channel stuffed aketon is wrong... the stiching between each channel is wide open to a thrust, blunt trama or projectile.

I now believe that the "channel" is just a way of holding the tow/cotton in place for a stand alone protective garment for the common soldier.

Cheers,

DT

[Saint-Sever]

...In particular, the odd, long dags on the hem of the skirts strike me as indicating that the body of the gambeson was a stiffer, more rigid garment than those being worn beneath the hauberks of the knights...

Micheal,

Check out the artist's treatment of the waist of the gambeson as it is cinched in by the belt. If the depiction is accurate, the gambeson looks to be fairly soft and flexible the way it creases and bunches. I think this points to the gambeson being more likely softer/flexible than harder/stiffer. Note also the close fit of the sleeves around the arm and the wrist. I'd venture to say such a fit would only be possible with a softer consistency. It it were hard and stiff neither the wrist nor the elbow would be mobile enough.

Of course, to make such deductions is completely dependant on the presumtion that the artist is being "photographically accurate" to the subject matter---and to presume so might be somewhat of a stretch...eh?

Cheers,
Tim

Tim--

With the body of the garment, it seemed to me that there were fewer "bunch lines" where the thing was cinched in by the belt, as opposed to the same cinching in the waists of civil dress being worn by figures in other parts of the MS. I read this as indicating a thicker, if not more rigid garment being worn over the body. The arms of the garment would be made of fewer layers of quilting, like that "Sleeve of St. Martin" we talked about months ago.

A possible explanation for the seeming "2-garment" depeiction in the MS might be that the body of the armor might be a more thickly quilted stand-alone garment, worn over a regular aketon in lieu of a hauberk-- "Jean, there's no money in the budget to issue you a maille hauberk, but here's this very nice bit of extra protection to wear over your aketon". There are references to gambesons being worn over aketons as a normal occurrance-- maybe this is a depiction of the practice?

[T. Finkas]

Interesting thoughts, Michael. I had not considered the "vest over jacket" explanation. I don't know if I am convinced by such a theory, but it is very interesting. We will never know what the structure of the original garment was, so one (educated) theory may be as worthy as another. At any rate, I certainly appreciate having read your ideas on this armour.

I am jones-ing to make a version of this for Pennsic to wear "under" my WMA/Adam Berry kettle helmet. My intention would be to have the coat "stand alone" as SCA legal armour (for my impression of a crossbowman). Since I get hit very little, if at all, I have the luxury of wearing SCA minimum for Heavy list. So, I am contemplating moderate padding of the garment via perhaps breathable poly "NewFoam" material, augmented by eyelets scattered about for ventilation (brass eyelets, embroidered over to match the garment. The sleeves might incorporate a bazuband type arm defense, covered in quilted cloth to visually blend in to the quilted arm of the aketon. Shoulder defenses (splinted plastic?) will be built into the coat and for kidney protection I will wear a seperate kidney belt underneath of canvas and segmented plastic plates. I can't decide whether the the demi-gaunts will be attached or separate, but they will also be covered with quilted canvas to match the sleeves. I am picturing a separate gorget out of plastic and canvas, made to imitate the Mac Bible gorget thingee (in pale green of course) with the skirt of the gorget underlapping the neck-hole of the coat.

Since time is short, I would have to machine quilt this in order to make the field for this year's Pennsic. Later on I might hand-overstitch the quilt lines with heavy contrasting thread to imitate the Mac Bible illustrations. I hate machine stitching where it is visible, but since this isn't a living history application, I am willing to live with the compromise for now.

Cheers,
Tim

[Tailoress]

I know most of the talkers in this thread already know about this other thread, but for others who are taking an interest, here's a link to a previous thread which contains lots of interesting discussion along these lines and related:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=31428

-Tasha

[Kenwrec Wulfe]

Wow - go away for a weekend and BAM! Excellent discussion going here. Thank you for all of the information.