Armet and fighting doublet?

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:12 pm

Is there any historical evidence that Armets where used with fighting doublets, Aketans, Jupons, etc?

I have a friend that is getting an Armet, but is very sketchy about using a breatplate. I was wondering if there was any other torso armour that was used instead of plate?

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:24 pm

Not padded armours, no. THere is one bit of documentation, in the form of a letter of one of the Cely brothers, describing the current state of his harness (what doesn't fit him, what he has sold, and what he wants his cousin or brother to purchase while in Calais), that specifically mentions him wearing a 'bycocket' (probably an English term of reference to some types of armets), and a pair of Southwark brigandines (that is, a brigandine, but they refered to them as 'pairs').

Other than that, I remember but do not have to hand a French miniature depicting a captain of the Escossais archers wearing pull plate arms, legs, a brigandine with mail sleeves, and an armet.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:29 pm

Bob, pictorial evidence aside, is it safe to assume that the armet would have been passed over (in preference to the sallet) by the average, lightly armored common soldier simply due to the fact that its closed design would limit visibility and ventilation? I'm assuming these factors would explain why you would probably never see an armet worn with a jack.

Also, I always thought "bycocket" was an English corruption of bascinet.

Klaus

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:14 am

Armet and Brig? interesting. So, what about an Armet and Plackard with a Brig top?

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:52 pm

not too sure its a brig top and not a cloth covered breastplate.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:34 pm

Wolf wrote:not too sure its a brig top and not a cloth covered breastplate.

Not as I recollect. No plackart, or full set of faulds and tassets, also with mail sleeves.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 8:37 pm

Klaus the Red wrote:Bob, pictorial evidence aside, is it safe to assume that the armet would have been passed over (in preference to the sallet) by the average, lightly armored common soldier simply due to the fact that its closed design would limit visibility and ventilation? I'm assuming these factors would explain why you would probably never see an armet worn with a jack.

Also, I always thought "bycocket" was an English corruption of bascinet.

Klaus

It is never safe to make any assumption. Nevertheless, the evidence we have has armets as a type of helmet worn with very full armours, and not partial sets.

Nope regarding bycocket, to the best of my knowledge. The references are mostly 15th century, and the Cely reference is from the 1470's.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:53 pm

Reasonable, then, if not necessarily safe.

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:34 am

chef de chambre wrote:
Wolf wrote:not too sure its a brig top and not a cloth covered breastplate.

Not as I recollect. No plackart, or full set of faulds and tassets, also with mail sleeves.

i'm not sure i follow your wording? none found or non painted?

there are an awful lot of men painted in the Fros. paintings with breastplates with colored tops, with silver/black plackarts, faulds and tassets

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:31 am

Wolf wrote:
chef de chambre wrote:
Wolf wrote:not too sure its a brig top and not a cloth covered breastplate.

Not as I recollect. No plackart, or full set of faulds and tassets, also with mail sleeves.

i'm not sure i follow your wording? none found or non painted?

there are an awful lot of men painted in the Fros. paintings with breastplates with colored tops, with silver/black plackarts, faulds and tassets

Noi. I am referencing a specific painting, by Foquet, that is an illumination that depicts what is probably the captain of the Escossais archers, wearing an armet and a brigandine, with mail sleeves, and full harness on arms and legs.

You were muddying your own waters by bringing up the Louis de Bruge Froissart, which I never referenced. Indeed, I am of the belief that if we see a full set of packets with faulds and tassets, front and back, as in those specific examples in the Louis de Bruge Froissart, then we are seeing a fabric covered plate armour, and not a brigandine.

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:54 am

oh ok hehe sorry i was getting confused in teh conversation. i was like but but i've seen this but ehhehe