Portable Antiquities Scheme (Pictures of Old Stuff)

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 2:28 pm

This link is the entirety of images in the British Library Portable Antiquities Scheme:

http://www.findsdatabase.org.uk/view/br ... t_prevpage

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:31 pm

Good stuff. Someone bump this so I can bookmark it at home!

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 5:44 pm

Oh my goodness.

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:30 am

Nice one jehan.

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:56 am

I see your portable antiquities scheme and raise you some of the best objects on display in France. http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/Home.aspx

best is, it's free and you can order (for cash) larger prints of various pieces.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:59 am

Unless I miss my guess, I just found pretty good evidence for the use of linen as high-end outer garment material...

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=500&FP=22187633&E=22S39UL3EHTN&SID=22S39UL3EHTN&New=T&Pic=116&SubE=2C6NU0V9IKDI

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:06 am

Klaus the Red wrote:Unless I miss my guess, I just found pretty good evidence for the use of linen as high-end outer garment material...

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=500&FP=22187633&E=22S39UL3EHTN&SID=22S39UL3EHTN&New=T&Pic=116&SubE=2C6NU0V9IKDI

Not that I'm trying to contradict the possibility that people wore linen outerwear in the Middle Ages, but what evidence is there that this particular fragment was used as high-end outer garment material (and not, say, part of a wall-hanging or some other function?)

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:07 am

Here's another neat little thang. Great helm with a wrapper, Wisby-style gauntlets, sleeveless quilted coat worn on the outside, possible scale aventail...?

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=500&FP=22187633&E=22S39UL3EHTN&SID=22S39UL3EHTN&New=T&Pic=269&SubE=2C6NU0G8T5NQ

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:13 am

what evidence is there that this particular fragment was used as high-end outer garment material (and not, say, part of a wall-hanging or some other function?)

You're right, it's not conclusive... but it does appear to shoot a hole in the general theory that expensive decorative fabrics (for people or objects) had to be wool or silk. There are so many factors at play that could explain its function: how much of the cost of this textile was fiber and how much weaving labor? Ie, was it significantly cheaper than a silk woven in the same pattern? Aside from cost, why use linen and not silk or wool? The advantage as clothing is obviously comfort- would it have held up better as a curtain, cushion covering, whatever? It's worth its own discussion, this one.

K

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:55 am

Klaus

"ut it does appear to shoot a hole in the general theory that expensive decorative fabrics (for people or objects) had to be wool or silk"

by all accounts all fabrics were used, linen was very commonly used for wall hangings, altar cloths etc. Quite well documented as to restrictions on their painting by staynours.

Is there a general belief that hanging cloths etc were mostly linen or silk? it might well be the opposite. Banners, the few that surive and that are documented are mentioned as linen and silk (client and cost dependent).

But I am not mistaken the sample on your link says printed and Italian. This would tie in with Cennini (later) and his description of making false brocades by printing on cloth. Thanks for that link Klaus, it adds to my collection of printed cloth samples. Assuming the trans is correct.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:31 am

Printed- missed that, good to know. Mighty intricate printing! That puts a whole new light on it. Thanks for the additional info re: wall hangings, etc.

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:18 am

No, thank you sir!

Yes it is finely printed stuff.

There is a large 14thC printed textile the sion textile historisches museum basel is in two or three parts (ie in separate collections), black and red block printing, linen etc. Huge too. Can't find any images on line, although it is in print.

I have a bit of info about cloth painters, thanks to Gwen as it happens, am willing to share it if you want.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:22 am

Sure, bring it on.

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:57 am

It has been brung, check the old PM.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 1:09 pm

http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/CSearchZ.aspx?o=&Total=12&FP=22346304&E=22S39ULM15SN&SID=22S39ULM15SN&New=T&Pic=4&SubE=2C6NU00UZR69

Another neat little item- a very period use for leftover bits of fancy fabric! The fabric itself appears to be a cotton-silk blend, and the pattern seems woven.

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 2:52 pm

" I see your portable antiquities scheme and raise you some of the best objects on display in France. http://www.photo.rmn.fr/c/htm/Home.aspx "

Hot damn, Thomas! More material culture Pr0n than you can shake a stick at!

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:11 pm

I know, between that, the web gallery of art, the BIldindex and the Portbale antiquities scheme, there's a S**T load of stuff about!

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 11:36 pm

grimstone bar wrote:Yes it is finely printed stuff.

There is a large 14thC printed textile the sion textile historisches museum basel is in two or three parts (ie in separate collections), black and red block printing, linen etc. Huge too. Can't find any images on line, although it is in print.

I have a bit of info about cloth painters, thanks to Gwen as it happens, am willing to share it if you want.

I know that there was a large industry in 15th C Italy for printing on cloth.

earnest carruthers · Post by **earnest carruthers** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:24 am

Alcyoneus have you any sources to point me to?

I am aware of cloth printing there from one primary source, Cennini plus the few surviving pieces mostly seem to be Italian*, the Sion textile is apparently, but not aware of the extent in the middle ages.

* there is a Flemish printed and coloured textile at the V and A.

thanks