15th Century smithy

[Jkeller]

Hi everyone, I'm hoping you can point me in the right direction. I'm looking for what a decently equipped 1450's smithy would have in it.

Especially:
What would the forge look like/be made out of?
What kind of bellows?
What sort of tools and how many of each?
Would he have a vise, or what would be used instead?

Anything else, especially a recommendation of any good books on the subject would be highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Justin

[Karen Larsdatter]

What kind of bellows?

Hah! I wondered if this would ever come in handy!
http://larsdatter.com/bellows.htm

[Andrew Young]

This is a very contraversial question because we dont know for certain. We dont even know that much about the techniques that were employed.

Visually all we really have are hammer marks on the inside of armour which suggest the types of hammers used (rather like a footprint in the snow). We also have some armour workshop scenes....which were also likely somewhat 'posed' to be clear it was an armour workshop, along with propped up suits of armour on display ....in the otherwise messy, dirty and partially dimly lit workshop/forge area that seems somewhat unlikely when you bear in mind the refined clientele visitors one might wish to impress (even a modest showroom bespeaks organization and professinalism). Also in these images are often rather silly charactures of armourers with their arms raised high over their heads banging the hell out of pieces (which is certainly exaggerated)...but a close inspection of the tools can be very useful.

Aside from that we have scientific data which is helpful is discerning some concepts, except that the metal we use has discernably different handling properties than some period metals did. Ultimately there is still a lot of speculation and very little that can be conclusively proven as the one and only way of manufacturing something with specific tools. Chances are, there were probably several ways or combinations of ways and tools to make pieces, similar to how two period armourers might approach a piece today.

Id suggest googling "armour workshop" or armourers workshop


(with or without the extra U in armour).


Anvils *less the horn)....and probably a lot of specialized stakes

--basic hammer shapes of different sizes
--fan stakes
--round solid stakes from 1" up to probably 4" in diameter.
--possibly fluting tools

[chef de chambre]

He asked about a "smithy" - last I checked, that was principle a blacksmiths forge. not an armourers shop. Not a great mystery there.

Most people in the field do not find there to be a great controversy regarding armouring, except for small specialized details of construction, like a mail makers process ( did a master tailor garments out of fabric made by journeymen or apprentices?).

[Jkeller]

I did post asking about a smithy, that's correct. I'd assume that a lot of the items would be similar to both, but the armourer would have a set of specialized tools.

Looking at http://classes.bnf.fr/ema/grands/ca001.htm points me towards a forge made out of brick or stone and mortar with a single-action bellows.

Thank you everyone for your input.

[Andrew Young]

He asked about a "smithy" - last I checked, that was principle a blacksmiths forge. not an armourers shop. Not a great mystery there.

Indeed you are correct I misinterpretted his question. However there are similarities in the other black arts that are useful to study.

Most people in the field do not find there to be a great controversy regarding armouring, except for small specialized details of construction, like a mail makers process ( did a master tailor garments out of fabric made by journeymen or apprentices?).

Great contraversey in all things, no. Some contraversey in others, yes. We do not conclusive know the exact process for every piece, in every region, in every era; and it is folly to assume we can assuredly know every detail. We have a sense of what was going on for simple gutter or shallower pieces such as cuisses, greaves, faulds, sabatons, however we do not have conclusive proof of the exact process or exact series of steps for substantially deeper pieces. What we have are modern recreations that have managed to capture the form and appearence of medieval pieces to the extent that some aspects of our approach appears to be correct. However we also use superior modern alloys, often apply an anachronistic sense of time and manufacturing; and there is still much more comprehensive applied metalurgical research and experimentation with more period metals that really needs to be done. So I would humbly submit, the study of armour creation is hardly conclusive; and even the best and most logical approaches are rarely true in every circumstance, time or place.

In that same vein, many historical crafts posess some mysteries to them that we do not fully understand. Doesnt mean we are clueless, but we dont know everything, simple as that.

[Kaos]

Check these out:

Dated 1450:

)Doesnt show period clothing, but the manuscript´s dated 1450.

Dated 1535:


Dated 1561:


I've included the 16th century ones as well, as they were too great not to show.
I got these from http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/
A good database of historical images.

[Fire Stryker]

Farriers shop is actually 1540 (see the date on the painting). Which goes to show that sometimes you can't trust the dates given in a database.

[Kaos]

Yeah, I noticed it just after posting, but then I had to help one of my students and forgot about it.
Posting at work can be a bad idea..

But you`re right about dating issues and trusting everything you read.

[Andrew Young]

Farriers shop is actually 1540 (see the date on the painting). Which goes to show that sometimes you can't trust the dates given in a database.

Good eye Fire Stryker I honestly wouldnt have caught that at first glance amidst the other pics until you pointed it out, lol Although the clothing should have been a 'giveaway' to whomever assembled the database, but its more than probably that most 'librarians' dont know everything.

[Cap'n Atli]

You can't work iron properly without a good harper!



Further information tonight!

[Chris G.]

The one from 1540 reminds me of the story of St. Eligius, where he removed a horses leg to apply a shoe, then restores the leg to the horse.