Other Shan Wen Jia
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
Other Shan Wen Jia
I too have started a Shan-Wen Jia project. I am doing my own thread as I do not want to jack the fine work of James on his thread.
I had 300 scales laser cut about 5 years ago. They have sat, some shaped and largely collecting dust and a little rust. They were from 18g mild steel.
Since my lacquered paper armour has now died, it's time for new armour. So here is my progress thread on my project of Shan-Wen-Jia.
To start - the scales.
They were laser cut at a local metal fab shop. Initially I shaped the scales with a chisel and a groove cut into a wood block. I have since moved on to a press with much better results.
The press:
It's a bending brake that mounts to a bench vise. I used the wood block instead of the negative form that came with it, as it worked much better for shaping.
Once I got the process down, I was able to get a lot of scales shaped in a fairly short time.
Suffice it to say that after 4 years of going from basements to garages in assorted moves, they managed to collect some rust along with all that dust.
To fix that, I mounted a wire wheel to my bench grinder and whisked away all that rust. To keep the rust from returning, I dipped the scales into some clear, glossy lacquer.
After one batch dried, I decided to fit them together and see how they lined up:
I have about another 100 or so to wire-wheel and lacquer dip, then it's time to assemble. I have some black duck-cloth canvas I plan to mount them to. For my girth, I am estimating 100 each for front and back torso. For ribs, it likely will be mild steel on leather. I may have enough left to attempt shoulder guards.
The real trick is figuring out how to make the shoulder lion-head/demons. That part of the project will be most interesting.
You can check out all my pics on my flickr account
I had 300 scales laser cut about 5 years ago. They have sat, some shaped and largely collecting dust and a little rust. They were from 18g mild steel.
Since my lacquered paper armour has now died, it's time for new armour. So here is my progress thread on my project of Shan-Wen-Jia.
To start - the scales.
They were laser cut at a local metal fab shop. Initially I shaped the scales with a chisel and a groove cut into a wood block. I have since moved on to a press with much better results.
The press:
It's a bending brake that mounts to a bench vise. I used the wood block instead of the negative form that came with it, as it worked much better for shaping.
Once I got the process down, I was able to get a lot of scales shaped in a fairly short time.
Suffice it to say that after 4 years of going from basements to garages in assorted moves, they managed to collect some rust along with all that dust.
To fix that, I mounted a wire wheel to my bench grinder and whisked away all that rust. To keep the rust from returning, I dipped the scales into some clear, glossy lacquer.
After one batch dried, I decided to fit them together and see how they lined up:
I have about another 100 or so to wire-wheel and lacquer dip, then it's time to assemble. I have some black duck-cloth canvas I plan to mount them to. For my girth, I am estimating 100 each for front and back torso. For ribs, it likely will be mild steel on leather. I may have enough left to attempt shoulder guards.
The real trick is figuring out how to make the shoulder lion-head/demons. That part of the project will be most interesting.
You can check out all my pics on my flickr account
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 5623
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:01 am
- Tatsuo Okami
- Archive Member
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:33 am
- Location: Salida, CO. USA
- Contact:
Did you create your own pattern or use one that was posted here on the Archive years ago>???
I Had a copy of that pattern but have lost it... Funny thing I was just thinking of wanting to finally do something with it.
Beautiful armour... and a fine research effort... thanks for the pix.
PS... anyone that has a copy of the old pattern.. I would love to get it.
I Had a copy of that pattern but have lost it... Funny thing I was just thinking of wanting to finally do something with it.
Beautiful armour... and a fine research effort... thanks for the pix.
PS... anyone that has a copy of the old pattern.. I would love to get it.
William S. Giltner
Lrd Tatsuo Okami
Iron River Armoury
In service to the Craft
Lrd Tatsuo Okami
Iron River Armoury
In service to the Craft
- William of Stonebridge
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1009
- Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 11:36 pm
- Location: South Central Kansas
The only one that I have seen is here on the Archive.
http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/Shanwenkia.pdf
http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/Shanwenkia.pdf
Respectfully,
William
William
- Tatsuo Okami
- Archive Member
- Posts: 955
- Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:33 am
- Location: Salida, CO. USA
- Contact:
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
Tatsuo,
That is the pattern I used.
I, too think I am a little nutso for making this, but I think it will look good in the end.
I will say this - the local knights are REALLY looking forward to dent-proofing it when it's finished.
That is the pattern I used.
I, too think I am a little nutso for making this, but I think it will look good in the end.
I will say this - the local knights are REALLY looking forward to dent-proofing it when it's finished.
William of Stonebridge wrote:The only one that I have seen is here on the Archive.
http://www.armourarchive.org/essays/Shanwenkia.pdf
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
More progress pics:
Front Progress
That's the panel for the front. It's coming along well. I did notice some issues as I was fitting the scales row-by-row. First is that as I was fitting more rows onto the backing, all the scales caused a concave curve that I had to bend back out. The second is that I had to modify the scales a little to get them to fit together a little better.
Clipped the ears
The scales that were on the edges, I decided to clip the ears there and grind them round. My thinking is that it will reduce some of the wear-through factor on the edges.
Modifying for fit
As I was fitting the scales together, I could see that the lower tips of the scales would hang on the upper tips of the row below it. At one point I was using a screwdriver and a light hammer to tap them into place. I finally figured out that bending up the tips was the better option. I also lightly bend down the upper part of the scales in the lower row - this helped things fit together much more smoothly.
Lifted tips
Showing the light bending I did on the lower tips to make things fit a little better.
More progress to follow - You can check it all out on my Flickr pages.
Front Progress
That's the panel for the front. It's coming along well. I did notice some issues as I was fitting the scales row-by-row. First is that as I was fitting more rows onto the backing, all the scales caused a concave curve that I had to bend back out. The second is that I had to modify the scales a little to get them to fit together a little better.
Clipped the ears
The scales that were on the edges, I decided to clip the ears there and grind them round. My thinking is that it will reduce some of the wear-through factor on the edges.
Modifying for fit
As I was fitting the scales together, I could see that the lower tips of the scales would hang on the upper tips of the row below it. At one point I was using a screwdriver and a light hammer to tap them into place. I finally figured out that bending up the tips was the better option. I also lightly bend down the upper part of the scales in the lower row - this helped things fit together much more smoothly.
Lifted tips
Showing the light bending I did on the lower tips to make things fit a little better.
More progress to follow - You can check it all out on my Flickr pages.
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 5623
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:01 am
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
More progress on my star-scale project.
I have some blue-dyed chrome-tan leather I used for the edging. I stitched it into place with some wax-impregnated black twine.
I still need to make rib protection and shoulders for it. I am still puzzling out the best way to make the roaring faces for the shoulders. I think I have enough scales left over for upper arm protection. I'll have to fit them together and see if it comes out long enough.
Since we all love pictures:
Chest piece with edging in place:
Back piece with edging in place:
The chest piece held up to my belly:
The back plate held in position:
I have some blue-dyed chrome-tan leather I used for the edging. I stitched it into place with some wax-impregnated black twine.
I still need to make rib protection and shoulders for it. I am still puzzling out the best way to make the roaring faces for the shoulders. I think I have enough scales left over for upper arm protection. I'll have to fit them together and see if it comes out long enough.
Since we all love pictures:
Chest piece with edging in place:
Back piece with edging in place:
The chest piece held up to my belly:
The back plate held in position:
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1046
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:17 pm
- Location: In a room a thousand years wide
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
William Lee wrote:I counted a total of 202 of the star scales for the front and back plate--98 remaining, by that count. Do you intend to make upper arm protection and skirts as well? That would look positively awesome! A few brass ones would make the look stand out even more....
Those shoulder pieces are actually going to become my thigh guards for this armour. They were way to big to be effective as upper arm armour anyway.
The armour you see them attached to in the above pic has fallen apart. There is some skirting on it that I will recycle to butt/hip protection. I have some leftover scales from that original project, so I will combine shiny and black to see if it comes off well. I don't have easy access to brass at this time, but I like the idea.
- Ld Thomas Willoughby
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1344
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: Shire of Vogelburg
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
I have an update to this progress thread. I figured out a solution to my wondering about what to do about making the shoulders with the demon faces.
The suggestions I got (that I remembered) were:
Learn metal raising and repousse.
Layer leather and then carve the faces
Leather mask making
Fiberglassing
What I finally decided on was something that looks good and was much easier than all of that: painting it on to hardened leather. In my research I noticed that the demon face shoulders/knees were mainly on woodcuts and statues - which need to be shaped to show the patterns.
So I based this on the demon faces I have seen in the statues and such. Overall, I am pleased with how they turned out.
And since we all like pictures:
The suggestions I got (that I remembered) were:
Learn metal raising and repousse.
Layer leather and then carve the faces
Leather mask making
Fiberglassing
What I finally decided on was something that looks good and was much easier than all of that: painting it on to hardened leather. In my research I noticed that the demon face shoulders/knees were mainly on woodcuts and statues - which need to be shaped to show the patterns.
So I based this on the demon faces I have seen in the statues and such. Overall, I am pleased with how they turned out.
And since we all like pictures:
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
The armour is complete!
I will break it (in) at fighter practice next week. (Have a music gig this week same night as fighter practice.)
So here are the general notes:
Front and back plates: Laser-cut scales in 18g mild steel, coated in lacquer and riveted to 2 layers of heavy black duck cloth canvas. Edged with 4-6oz chrome-tanned leather. Upper border on chest is wax-hardened leather. Upper border on back is 2 layers of corrugated political sign covered in black deerhide.
Shoulder guards and upper arm protection: 14oz leather water hardened and painted with the roaring demon face seen in the artwork that represents this armour. The scales are a mix of laser-cut 18g steel and 20g painted mild steel. Edging is black deerhide.
Ribs: Aluminum street sign (legally obtained!) cut to fit.
Skirting: 20g mild steel cut to hexagonal shapes and machine stitched between 2 layers of heavy duck canvas.
Thigh Guards: 20g mild steel scales painted black on a 12oz veg-tan leather backing. Edged in 4oz chrome-tanned leather. These were constructed about 7 years ago, intended to be part of another kit, but I thought they would be best used here.
And since I would be remiss without pictures:
All pictures by my lovely and ever-patient wife.
Armour from the front.
*****
Showing the shoulder guards with the painted demon faces and the scales descending from them.
*****
Showing the back of the armour
*****
Showing the side and rib protection
*****
Showing me in a sword and shield guard position.
*****
And you can see the full set of pictures at my Flickr site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9998306@N0 ... 804247351/
So let me know your thoughts/comments, etc.
I will break it (in) at fighter practice next week. (Have a music gig this week same night as fighter practice.)
So here are the general notes:
Front and back plates: Laser-cut scales in 18g mild steel, coated in lacquer and riveted to 2 layers of heavy black duck cloth canvas. Edged with 4-6oz chrome-tanned leather. Upper border on chest is wax-hardened leather. Upper border on back is 2 layers of corrugated political sign covered in black deerhide.
Shoulder guards and upper arm protection: 14oz leather water hardened and painted with the roaring demon face seen in the artwork that represents this armour. The scales are a mix of laser-cut 18g steel and 20g painted mild steel. Edging is black deerhide.
Ribs: Aluminum street sign (legally obtained!) cut to fit.
Skirting: 20g mild steel cut to hexagonal shapes and machine stitched between 2 layers of heavy duck canvas.
Thigh Guards: 20g mild steel scales painted black on a 12oz veg-tan leather backing. Edged in 4oz chrome-tanned leather. These were constructed about 7 years ago, intended to be part of another kit, but I thought they would be best used here.
And since I would be remiss without pictures:
All pictures by my lovely and ever-patient wife.
Armour from the front.
*****
Showing the shoulder guards with the painted demon faces and the scales descending from them.
*****
Showing the back of the armour
*****
Showing the side and rib protection
*****
Showing me in a sword and shield guard position.
*****
And you can see the full set of pictures at my Flickr site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9998306@N0 ... 804247351/
So let me know your thoughts/comments, etc.
Last edited by Malek on Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 5623
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:01 am
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 108
- Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:58 pm
- Location: Duke City, NM
- Contact:
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
The bench vise bending brake I got at Harbor Freight. I originally saw it on the website a long time ago, but found it in my local retail HF store. I think it was around $20 both sides are magnetic mount.Ogedei wrote:I have a couple of quick questions for you.
1) Where did you get the vice bending brake?
2) How rigid did these end up being?
Thanks.
The front and back seem to be fairly rigid once bent a little around my body by tightening the buckles up. I will know more for sure once I get to fight in the armour next week (maybe this weekend, if I can contact my buddy about doing some sparring )
To liguangming - Yes, this was an attempt. More a "proof of concept" design than an actual historical reproduction. So far as I know, there are no extant examples of this type of armour found, so any construction methods are conjecture and reverse-engineering.
Destachio - Just - thanks
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 706
- Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Vancouver, WA - Stromgard / An Tir
- Contact:
New armour in action!
I was able to take my armour for a test drive at the local fighter practice.
I did a little sparring last Sunday with a friend who had a free day. We checked it out -he hit me across the chest, ribs, in the thigh guards and a few wraps. All worked out well. On good blows, it stings some, but does not bruise. Really stout shots just sting more.
The thigh guards move around more than I originally expected - I'll have to figure something out for that. The only real issue is that they move enough that they absorb a lot of impact by moving around - so I'll have to make sure I be careful about taking my leg shots.
I still need to make a good gambeson for this armour.
From last night's fighter practice: Only a couple of bruises, and they were not related to being hit in the armour.
The first one was a nice wrap shot that hit me just below the back of my helm on my cervical gorget plate - thin leather with 20g mild steel under it - bent it pretty good. (gonna make a new cervical plate with something more sturdy under the leather)
Second one was a shot right across my collarbone - guy threw a flat snap as I was trying to wrap his ribs and we met at the wrong angle. When I make my new gambeson, I'll put some hidden plastic and padding over the collarbone area to keep that from doing any more damage in the future.
Plans for kit upgrade: Good linen gambeson with long sleeves to cover the articulated elbows. hex-plate and maille drape for the helm, and a horsetail holder. Greaves with knees integrated so I am no longer using the floating knees.
I don't have pictures of the fight practice, but my wife was kind enough to operate the video camera for me. I did a rapid edit and put it on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SsHaib2bk
I did a little sparring last Sunday with a friend who had a free day. We checked it out -he hit me across the chest, ribs, in the thigh guards and a few wraps. All worked out well. On good blows, it stings some, but does not bruise. Really stout shots just sting more.
The thigh guards move around more than I originally expected - I'll have to figure something out for that. The only real issue is that they move enough that they absorb a lot of impact by moving around - so I'll have to make sure I be careful about taking my leg shots.
I still need to make a good gambeson for this armour.
From last night's fighter practice: Only a couple of bruises, and they were not related to being hit in the armour.
The first one was a nice wrap shot that hit me just below the back of my helm on my cervical gorget plate - thin leather with 20g mild steel under it - bent it pretty good. (gonna make a new cervical plate with something more sturdy under the leather)
Second one was a shot right across my collarbone - guy threw a flat snap as I was trying to wrap his ribs and we met at the wrong angle. When I make my new gambeson, I'll put some hidden plastic and padding over the collarbone area to keep that from doing any more damage in the future.
Plans for kit upgrade: Good linen gambeson with long sleeves to cover the articulated elbows. hex-plate and maille drape for the helm, and a horsetail holder. Greaves with knees integrated so I am no longer using the floating knees.
I don't have pictures of the fight practice, but my wife was kind enough to operate the video camera for me. I did a rapid edit and put it on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-SsHaib2bk
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 5623
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2000 1:01 am
-
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1046
- Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:17 pm
- Location: In a room a thousand years wide
I'm a little surprised you didn't make your rib protection out of the same type of plates. While the aluminum plates are protective, they somewhat detract from the overall look of the piece.
Nice kit, though--you don't often see Chinese star scale pattern on the field!
Nice kit, though--you don't often see Chinese star scale pattern on the field!
Malek wrote:The armour is complete!
I will break it (in) at fighter practice next week. (Have a music gig this week same night as fighter practice.)
So here are the general notes:
Front and back plates: Laser-cut scales in 18g mild steel, coated in lacquer and riveted to 2 layers of heavy black duck cloth canvas. Edged with 4-6oz chrome-tanned leather. Upper border on chest is wax-hardened leather. Upper border on back is 2 layers of corrugated political sign covered in black deerhide.
Shoulder guards and upper arm protection: 14oz leather water hardened and painted with the roaring demon face seen in the artwork that represents this armour. The scales are a mix of laser-cut 18g steel and 20g painted mild steel. Edging is black deerhide.
Ribs: Aluminum street sign (legally obtained!) cut to fit.
Skirting: 20g mild steel cut to hexagonal shapes and machine stitched between 2 layers of heavy duck canvas.
Thigh Guards: 20g mild steel scales painted black on a 12oz veg-tan leather backing. Edged in 4oz chrome-tanned leather. These were constructed about 7 years ago, intended to be part of another kit, but I thought they would be best used here.
And since I would be remiss without pictures:
All pictures by my lovely and ever-patient wife.
Armour from the front.
*****
Showing the shoulder guards with the painted demon faces and the scales descending from them.
*****
Showing the back of the armour
*****
Showing the side and rib protection
*****
Showing me in a sword and shield guard position.
*****
And you can see the full set of pictures at my Flickr site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9998306@N0 ... 804247351/
So let me know your thoughts/comments, etc.