Chauses and braies
Moderator: Glen K
- OlafWulfbrandt
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- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2004 8:39 pm
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Chauses and braies
I posted this to the AOTC list as well as AuthenticSCA list as well but here goes please help also if you know the answer.
I am sure this question has been posted many time just not while I was paying attention. I have looked thru my copy of MOL textiles and clothing as well as Fashion in the age of the Black Prince and I am still unable to find the answer to the question.
When did Braies become the same color as the Chauses instead of the customary white color? Any help would be appreciated somehow showing white braies with yellow hose isint my idea of good fashion but striving to be period is. For reference my Persona is 1380 German Man at Arms serving the House of Anjou in France during the English quest for word domination.
Ich Dien
Olaf Wulfbrandt
Großartiger Meister
Haus Gebrochen Brücke
I am sure this question has been posted many time just not while I was paying attention. I have looked thru my copy of MOL textiles and clothing as well as Fashion in the age of the Black Prince and I am still unable to find the answer to the question.
When did Braies become the same color as the Chauses instead of the customary white color? Any help would be appreciated somehow showing white braies with yellow hose isint my idea of good fashion but striving to be period is. For reference my Persona is 1380 German Man at Arms serving the House of Anjou in France during the English quest for word domination.
Ich Dien
Olaf Wulfbrandt
Großartiger Meister
Haus Gebrochen Brücke
Ich Dien
Lord Olaf Wulfbrandt
Großartiger Meister
Haus Gebrochen Brücke
Lord Olaf Wulfbrandt
Großartiger Meister
Haus Gebrochen Brücke
Petrus/Peder found these examples of non-white braies:
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 006310.JPG (blue/black)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002897.JPG (tan, guy on left cross, could be symbolic for the stained nature of the thief's soul)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000768.JPG (black/blue)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001956.JPG (green speedo's "Klauenmartyrium des Hl.Vitus")
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002148.JPG (a couple more thieves showing their underalls)
These are mostly in Austria, 1450- early 16thC.
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 006310.JPG (blue/black)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002897.JPG (tan, guy on left cross, could be symbolic for the stained nature of the thief's soul)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000768.JPG (black/blue)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001956.JPG (green speedo's "Klauenmartyrium des Hl.Vitus")
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002148.JPG (a couple more thieves showing their underalls)
These are mostly in Austria, 1450- early 16thC.
My 10yo daughter says I'm pretty!
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
A couple more:
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 006953.JPG (light blue, prob symbolic since some sort of lb chain is around the ankles)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 005701.JPG (dark b/w pic)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 011494.JPG (several to choose from)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 006953.JPG (light blue, prob symbolic since some sort of lb chain is around the ankles)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 005701.JPG (dark b/w pic)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 011494.JPG (several to choose from)
My 10yo daughter says I'm pretty!
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
Here's the more detailed list he emailed me:
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002897.JPG
1496 ; 1496 ; Klosterneuburg ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000767.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000768.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Bad Aussee ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000769.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000770.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Bad Aussee ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000777.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000779.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Bad Aussee ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000280.JPG
1440 ; 1450 ; Linz ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000284.JPG
1510 ; 1520 ; Linz ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/qim/3000290
1500 ; 1510 ; Linz ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000137.JPG
1484 ; 1484 ; St.Florian ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001581.JPG
1495 ; 1505 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001510.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001514.JPG
1465 ; 1470 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001524.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001525.JPG
1465 ; 1470 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001527.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001528.JPG
1465 ; 1470 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001817.JPG
1460 ; 1470 Salzburg(?)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001604.JPG
1467 ; 1467 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001130.JPG
1475 ; 1485 ; Wien ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000755.JPG
1518 ; 1518 ; Neuberg ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000864.JPG
1475 ; 1485 ; Salzburg-Morzg ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000818.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000819.JPG
1469 ; 1469 ; Güssing ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 003504.JPG
1510 ; 1515 ; Innsbruck ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002713.JPG
1490 ; 1500 ; Heidenreichstein ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002148.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Gmünd ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 004588.JPG
1500 ; 1525 ; Kortsch ; Italien
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 006427.JPG
1455 ; 1465 ; Freising ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 007416.JPG
1448 ; 1448 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 007824.JPG
1485 ; 1495 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 007854.JPG
1485 ; 1495 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 008181.JPG
1445 ; 1450 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 008664.JPG
1475 ; 1475 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 009165.JPG
1505 ; 1505 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 009419.JPG
1467 ; 1477 ; Graz ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 011494.JPG
1488 ; 1488 ; Ludesch ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 011663.JPG
1515 ; 1525 ; Pulkau ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 012201.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 012202.JPG
1470 ; 1478 ; Spisska Kapitula ; Slowakei
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 012214.JPG
1470 ; 1478 ; Spisska Kapitula ; Slowakei ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 013878.JPG
1475 ; 1485 ; Hluboka nad Vlatavou ; Tschechien ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002897.JPG
1496 ; 1496 ; Klosterneuburg ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000767.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000768.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Bad Aussee ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000769.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000770.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Bad Aussee ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000777.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000779.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Bad Aussee ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000280.JPG
1440 ; 1450 ; Linz ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000284.JPG
1510 ; 1520 ; Linz ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/qim/3000290
1500 ; 1510 ; Linz ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000137.JPG
1484 ; 1484 ; St.Florian ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001581.JPG
1495 ; 1505 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001510.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001514.JPG
1465 ; 1470 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001524.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001525.JPG
1465 ; 1470 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001527.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001528.JPG
1465 ; 1470 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001817.JPG
1460 ; 1470 Salzburg(?)
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001604.JPG
1467 ; 1467 ; Laufen ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 001130.JPG
1475 ; 1485 ; Wien ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000755.JPG
1518 ; 1518 ; Neuberg ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000864.JPG
1475 ; 1485 ; Salzburg-Morzg ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000818.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 000819.JPG
1469 ; 1469 ; Güssing ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 003504.JPG
1510 ; 1515 ; Innsbruck ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002713.JPG
1490 ; 1500 ; Heidenreichstein ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 002148.JPG
1450 ; 1460 ; Gmünd ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 004588.JPG
1500 ; 1525 ; Kortsch ; Italien
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 006427.JPG
1455 ; 1465 ; Freising ; Deutschland ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 007416.JPG
1448 ; 1448 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 007824.JPG
1485 ; 1495 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 007854.JPG
1485 ; 1495 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 008181.JPG
1445 ; 1450 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 008664.JPG
1475 ; 1475 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 009165.JPG
1505 ; 1505 ; Wien ; Österreich ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 009419.JPG
1467 ; 1477 ; Graz ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 011494.JPG
1488 ; 1488 ; Ludesch ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 011663.JPG
1515 ; 1525 ; Pulkau ; Österreich
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 012201.JPG
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 012202.JPG
1470 ; 1478 ; Spisska Kapitula ; Slowakei
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 012214.JPG
1470 ; 1478 ; Spisska Kapitula ; Slowakei ;
http://titan.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/server/ ... 013878.JPG
1475 ; 1485 ; Hluboka nad Vlatavou ; Tschechien ;
My 10yo daughter says I'm pretty!
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
- Primvs Pavlvs
- Archive Member
- Posts: 11962
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Hillbillyville, USA
- Contact:
- Primvs Pavlvs
- Archive Member
- Posts: 11962
- Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Hillbillyville, USA
- Contact:
I was wondering the same as James. Linen does not take well to dying with natural products. I know you can get pale colors from madder and woad. Not sure how well weld or other dye products would have worked. If you dont want to use white all the time, I believe linen in its natural state tends toward a pale gray color.
GrÃÂmr
GrÃÂmr
I'm not so sure about that...I have a friend who has done an awful lot of textile research...maybe i'll point her to this thread.
As to the colors, Olaf: PFah!
I'm going to be wearing white braises with gold chausses this weekend, and I intend to look stunning!
Or, at least, as good as I can...
As to the colors, Olaf: PFah!
I'm going to be wearing white braises with gold chausses this weekend, and I intend to look stunning!
Or, at least, as good as I can...
"I think you're wrong in your understanding of fighting.... though what you have written is very manly, it does not convey a real sense of clue...." - Sir Christian The German
- Charlotte J
- Girl Genius
- Posts: 15840
- Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: I <3 Colorado
- Contact:
Griffin wrote:I was wondering the same as James. Linen does not take well to dying with natural products. I know you can get pale colors from madder and woad. Not sure how well weld or other dye products would have worked. If you dont want to use white all the time, I believe linen in its natural state tends toward a pale gray color.
GrÃÂmr
Who says that they have to be linen? I believe in the Hull Friary finds (still waiting for details...), there's evidence of wool being used for braies.
http://www.hullcc.gov.uk/archaeology/hullmc.htm
Six of the early 15th-century male burials wore fine woollen underclothing - the earliest evidence for underpants in Britain?
-Charlotte
- Primvs Pavlvs
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James B. wrote:I wonder if the colors have meaning, all of these paintings are of saints or sinners. I don't see them in French or Flemish art. Hmmmm.
I'd say that it was all religious art, but there doesn't seem to be any consistency. Some colored undies were on Jesus, some on both of the thieves (only one of which died unrepentent), some on one or the other. In groups of multiple martyrdoms, only some are wearing the colored braies.
It may be that it was primarily a collection of religious art that he was brousing through. There isn't much secular art for most of the middle ages.
My 10yo daughter says I'm pretty!
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir
Squire to Jarl Asgeirr Gunnarson, Barony of Vatavia, Calontir