sword scabbard / belt lacing tutorial or how to?

[spanish_hospitaller]

Now thatI got my sword, and I finished the scabbard, I am in need of a tutorial or a how to for the belt and the lacing system to attach it to the scabbard

I've sen plenty of images, photos, paintings, etc. but they all seem to lack an overall image of the belt and the laces themselves and ways to weave them to the scabbard

any takrs?

TIA

placide et humilius,

[Clinker]

Try here http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=151842 .

[Michael B]

That's a great tutorial - thanks.

The thing I've always wondered is: Why did they lace scabbards like this? I have one very similar (with the twin-tail tied at the front instead of a buckle), and it's great because of the angle at which it holds the scabbard, but the same effect could be achieved with two loops, one higher than the other.

Any ideas?

[Egfroth]

These (two-loop scabbard fittings) do appear in Carolingian sources such as the Golden Psalter of St Gallen, and there is a single example on the Bayeux Tapestry. They do make the scabbard hang at just the right angle, but I had some difficulty fixing the loops in such a way that they didn't end up loosening on the scabbard and slipping down ward. It's a bit hard to stitch them in place, though maybe I'm missing something . . .

[spanish_hospitaller]

Clinker,

I am most grateful to you for your help posting that image.

Any insights however on the weight of the recommended leather for both scabbard and belt?

placide et humilius,

[Michael B]

These (two-loop scabbard fittings) do appear in Carolingian sources such as the Golden Psalter of St Gallen, and there is a single example on the Bayeux Tapestry. They do make the scabbard hang at just the right angle, but I had some difficulty fixing the loops in such a way that they didn't end up loosening on the scabbard and slipping down ward. It's a bit hard to stitch them in place, though maybe I'm missing something . . .

It's all quite odd, particularly given the length of time similar knotting seems to have been used. I've always presumed that the whole thing is intended to allow unlacing, perhaps so that either the belt or scabbard might be replaced as required.

The problem I've experienced is the lower strap slipping upwards and thus detracting from the angling effect.

No doubt appropriate ridges could easily be incorporated in the scabbard under the leather, but it still all seems a little unnecessarily complicated.

That said, I really like the look.

As they say in archaeology, when they can't work out an everyday function for an artefact: "It is most likely an item of ritual significance".


Michael B

[Clinker]

S H, I used elk hide for the belt, which was the period material. By using a forked belt-end tied thru the other end of the belt, you have a simple and elegant rig, without the hassle of finding a period buckle.

I used wooden wall paneling, commonly called Luan, to make the sheath Core. It is thin, so it looks right. Traced the blade on it, added a 1/4" or so for a 'welt'. Cut 1/4"wide strips for the welt, glued them in to surround the blade. Make the welt as thick as the blade, so it slides in easily. Some people line the sheath with very thin leather. You may want to play with the tip shape to match period shapes. Round edges of core.

Then covered sheath with 3-4 oz leather, butted seam up the middle of the back, I used a 2-needle baseball stitch, and it looked good, laid flat, and was easy to do. The extensions around the mouth of the sheath must be factored into the leather before cutting. Line the extensions with elkskin, thinning it with sand paper to ease fitting and sewing. Cut a slot for the blade, and glue mouth tight to core. CAREFULLY cut slits in sheath leather for lacing into the belt.

For the chape, I bent a piece of steel rod of the same diameter as the sheath thickness into the same shape as the sheath tip, and about 4-6 inches long. Use a propane torch for heat to ease the bending. Put the ends into a vise. Cut some brass into an appropriate shape and hammered it around the form to correct shape and curved to fit the sheath like a glove. Put it on the sheath, drill a couple holes. and use brass nails to rivet the chape on. Make sure rivets go thru the welt, not the blade.

Wear it proudly.

For the two loop hanging method, I just glued the loops to the sheath. Could also just take your awl and push thru the loop and the edge of the sheath itself a couple of times, then run a stitch thru the whole assembly.

[JJ Shred]

I use unwashed fleece instead of leather to line the scabbard. The lanolin helps prevent rust, the fleece keeps rain from getting in, and the fleece holds the sword tight enough that it won't fall out when held upside down, yet still easily draws. (This with the hair in the downward direction.)

[Michael B]

I use unwashed fleece instead of leather to line the scabbard. The lanolin helps prevent rust, the fleece keeps rain from getting in, and the fleece holds the sword tight enough that it won't fall out when held upside down, yet still easily draws. (This with the hair in the downward direction.)

... but it just doesn't give you that "schwing!" sound when you draw your sword.

In the absence of fleece, I've used simple woollen blanket as a lining. Soak it in oil, then squirt some more in once the scabbard is complete, plus coat the blade and sheath it. I've used this scabbard for the past 10 years without problems, and only the occasional extra squirt of oil out of caution.

I also second the point about rivetting after the blade has been withdrawn. I drilled holes for rivetting brass gutter edging to a seax scabbard, and ended up with a scalloped edge for part of the blade length. Had to do a bit of extra filing. Definitely a D'oh! moment.

Cheers
Michael B

[Konstantin the Red]

See also Oakeshott, AoW, fig 119, p. 241, for a diagram of one pattern of such lacing. There are several other figures of laced-in scabbards in the same book that can be figured out once you've mastered this one. They all work on about the same principles.

[Buran]

These (two-loop scabbard fittings) do appear in Carolingian sources such as the Golden Psalter of St Gallen, and there is a single example on the Bayeux Tapestry. They do make the scabbard hang at just the right angle, but I had some difficulty fixing the loops in such a way that they didn't end up loosening on the scabbard and slipping down ward. It's a bit hard to stitch them in place, though maybe I'm missing something . . .

Egfroth: Can you please say where in the BT we have this scabbard suspension? Thanks!

So far, I just see them with vertical scabbards, and probably lots of bruises on their legs!

[Egfroth]

Buran, two separate issues. In the Carolingian pics (Golden Psalter), the scabbards with two loops hang at the correct angle. In the BT, there's only one, and it hangs vertically.

Scabbard attachments are shown very rarely in the BT, and most of them are hard to interpret. The single example of the same strap arrangement, is on the left-hand footsoldier in the bottom panel at http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bayeux_tap ... 46_48.html

As far as I can make out, there is also a single example in the BT of the "criss-cross" attachment - it's on the sword held by William sitting in state in the scene where Harold swears on the relics, see the second panel at http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bayeux_tap ... 16_18.html

There might be others, but I didn't spot them in a quick scan-through.

[Jehan de Pelham]

Outstanding tutorial.

Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

[Buran]

Thanks Egfroth. I agree, it's hard to interpret them. On one hand the scabbards seem to be hanging straight down, but then again, many of the soldiers seem to be leaning backas much as ten degrees!

[Patrick Kelly]

Here's a schematic drawing on scabbard construction by swedish smith Peter Johnsson.

A photo of the real thing, also by Peter. My personal fave in my collection.

And a close-up of the lacing.

The back side.

The belt is elk hide which is thin yet strong. The scabbard is covering is also thin. Most people make the mistake of using leather that's far too heavy which results in the gunfighter syndrome. This is the most commonly replicated suspension system for the high middle ages. However, there are many variations on the theme.

[Jehan de Pelham]

Patrick, beautiful. Very beautiful.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

[Patrick Kelly]

Patrick, beautiful. Very beautiful.

John
Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

Thanks! Peter is indeed a master craftsman.

[Buran]

Notice that the leather has two slightly different shades.
Also, he cautions us away from the flat scabbard syndrome, which makes the wood look like it's been made from two chunks of plywood.

[Wolf]

ug scabbards are a bitch to make. any suggestions? trying to make one for my paul binns

[Raimond]

After researching historical scabbard construction online and in books and manuscripts I own, I came across this thread. Using the instructions provided and the pictures I gleaned from my resources, I built a scabbard and have detailed the experience here:

http://www.mron.org/The_making_of_a_14t ... abbard.pdf

I hope it helps.

[Gwydion Caithnes]

After researching historical scabbard construction online and in books and manuscripts I own, I came across this thread. Using the instructions provided and the pictures I gleaned from my resources, I built a scabbard and have detailed the experience here:

http://www.mron.org/The_making_of_a_14t ... abbard.pdf

I hope it helps.

Excellent...but you didn't explain when and how you used the beer...



I assume the TIMING of the "mood beer" is also very important...

[Felix Wang]

Thank you, Raimond. I also have a Landgraf in need of a scabbard, so your fine work is inspirational.

I see there are 14 hours of music and 15 beers, so there may be a steady ratio of beer:CD consumption.

[Jehan de Pelham]

Yes. A little beer informs everything the Compaignye du Chalis does.

Jehan de Pelham, esquire and servant of Sir Vitus

[knitebee]

Raimond, I'm impressed that turned out very impressive. I like the details down the front. What did you do for a chape? Did you add a steel one or just leave it leather?

Brian
(aka Brizio de Corizzaio de Marrone)

[Raimond]

Brian:

Good to hear from you. It was a pleasure having you in our camp at the faire.

I have ordered an Anshelm Arms brass buckle and tip set.
The quatrefoil set on this page:
http://www.anshelmarms.com/belt.html

I would like a brass chape to make it all match. As yet, I have not ordered one. Frankly, I have not even looked. Would you like to try your hand at some brasswork? I could send you some closeup pix of the tip with dimensions.