Looking for Shield Painter "Comm."/Trade @ Pennsic

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:09 am

Ok this is probably a bit odd, but I thought I would give this a try since my camp will be sadly short of graphic artists this year.

I have a brand new and fabulous shield from my brother Syr Justus, made of 7 lames of high grade baltic ply and per my specification it has a 7+" deep curve, just as one sees in many pictures of early 13th c. knightly shields.

I have edged, covered the back with damask, the front with canvas, decoratively strapped and rosette-washered it. The face is primed and tonight the field divisions (Or, a chief Vert) will be finished. Yes, pictures are coming.

But this shield is shaped very differently from my previous ones, whose maximum curve was probably only 4". So, I need a new version of the rest of my arms: two crows displayed, heads respectant. Especially since I think my current crows look a tiny bit modern.

I wonder if there is anyone coming to the war who matches the following criteria:

Attending by Tuesday of the FIRST week, the 28th
an artist familiar with heraldic styles, esp. EARLY ones
can show me some examples of his/her work (via web or in person)
capable of working without a projector
willing to spend an afternoon or early evening in the exceptionally lovely Vair & Ermine Camp, painting
willing to do this for some combination of dinner, beer, glory, training time in weapon & shield/polearm/spear*/leather tooling, or say, $20.

I'll supply all materials.

Vair & Ermine Camp is on Battle Road, N18, left side as you walk out away from the merchants. We're hard to miss, what with all the 28' tall war standard poles, the sign that says "Vair & Ermine" and the piece of list barrier that says Non Via Autem Iter

Best to arrange this before hand if possible!

*anyone, of course, is always welcome to approach me for training. You don't have to paint my shield first.

Tristan vom Schwarzwald · Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:01 am

/me whistles silently.

That is one pretty curve...your strapping methodology per your household website still applies? Your elbow won't feel weird behind the shield due to the depth of the curve?

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:31 am

The strapping is the same, and I think it will work.

[url=http://delaflamme.org/site/makeashield][img]http://delaflamme.org/site/images/images-Thumbnails/17.jpg[/img]
My shield strapping demo[/url]

The elbow is about the same, but my hand goes knuckle first into the back of the shield, instead of the whole back of my palm.

Tristan, if you're interested, show me some stuff!

Tristan vom Schwarzwald · Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:34 am

Sorry, didn't mean to derail...I was just curious about hanging it. I don't have the talent for what you need plus I won't be at Pennsic...

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:39 pm

Pics of the shield with links at

http://delaflamme.org/site/new-deep-cur ... eld-justus

Beeman · Post by **Beeman** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:11 am

Nice. Thank you for the pictures. Im curious though, what did you use for the large rivets that hold the straps on? I ask because Ive been trying to figure out how to strap a shield in a similar fashion and I dont want to use nuts and bolts. I was leaning toward making my own large rivets out of bar stock but was hoping to find an easier solution. Thanks.

es02 · Post by **es02** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 6:21 am

Beeman wrote:Nice. Thank you for the pictures. Im curious though, what did you use for the large rivets that hold the straps on?

Not sure what he has used but personally I use solid shank flat head copper rivets, works very nicely.

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:14 am

Those are carriage bolts on the back, with 2 fancy washers, and countersunk t-nuts on the face of the shield.

[img]http://delaflamme.org/images/washer-Thumbnails/6.jpg[/img]
My quatrefoil making technique has improved since this pic was taken, mostly due to the acquisition of a hand grinder.

Glaukos the Athenian · Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:54 am

WOW the "Ivanhoe" Shield!!!

Sir Corby, what dimensions did you use for that shield?

Nice concept, nicely executed! κῦδος to Syr Justus!

Glaukos

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:56 am

I forget how wide. Justus knows. It's 40" tall. And the curve is about 7" deep.

You know, I'm ashamed to say I've never seen Ivanhoe.

But I've seen LOTS of pictures of late 12th - early 13th century shields, and this is pretty close.

Glaukos the Athenian · Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:57 am

Corby de la Flamme wrote:You know, I'm ashamed to say I've never seen Ivanhoe.

Not that it or the book are renowned for historical accuracy, still a very good show..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCi_l7hW_aE

Glaukos

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:19 am

I've tried and tried to get a curve in my byzantine teardrop I've been working on.

I've tried gorilla brand wood glue, titebond 2, and titebond 3. I've left them in the shield press for over a week and yet they still flatten out after a couple days out of the press.

How did you get such a deep curve in the shield? Oh, I've been using 2 layers of 1/4 inch birch ply.

Next time I'm going to use epoxy I think..

Corby de la Flamme · Post by **Corby de la Flamme** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:41 am

Note the shield was made by Syr Justus, not me. Ask him! I think his LJ (linked above) goes into some of the details.

I do know it is made of SEVEN layers of extra thin hardwood ply.

Gorilla Glue is a complete disaster on shields. While it may hold well, it is very very bad at shock absorption and dealing with flex. Far too brittle.

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:42 am

Gorilla brand wood glue is different from normal gorilla glue.

justus · Post by **justus** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:46 am

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/3760460017/" title="jb_10_int by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3467/3760460017_05129d4794.jpg" width="411" height="500" alt="jb_10_int"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/3760459969/" title="bonn_det by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2575/3760459969_e18c58ce03_o.jpg" width="457" height="406" alt="bonn_det"></a>

Two of many depictions of a deeply curved kite shield. Some are so deep that the warrior is completely surrounded by the sides of the shield but perhaps those are exaggerated?

My version:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/3717178689/" title="IMG_1583 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3437/3717178689_5c0dc7bb4b.jpg" width="300" height="500" alt="IMG_1583"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/3717993772/" title="IMG_1585 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2511/3717993772_d96751d3f2.jpg" width="500" height="390" alt="IMG_1585"></a>

To get a curve that deep you need a press that will create a lot of pressure, and distribute it evenly along the entire glue line. Straps around a tree or some of the shield presses I've seen might create enough pressure right under the strap or rib but not across the whole surface of the shield.

Something like this will:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/3717178599/" title="IMG_1582 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2662/3717178599_6d1620ebf4.jpg" width="315" height="500" alt="IMG_1582"></a>

The other key thing is the material you are laminating. 1/4 inch plywood from home centers is not great. When you buy "Oak" or "Birch" plywood from Home Depot you are really buying a thick piece of poplar with two paper thin veneers of birch or oak, which is not the same thing at all now is it?

I'm using three sheets of 1/8th Baltic Birch for these shields. Each piece is made of three equal layers of solid birch so you have a total of 9 piles of solid birch vs two piles of poplar for the same thickness. (1/4 inch plywood is not really a one quarter of an inch thick)

I'm using titebond III, and I'm getting about a half inch of spring back when I take it out of the form.

Corby's shield is even deeper than the one pictured above. It's about 21 wide with a 28 inch circumference and just over seven inches deep. I should be able to get an 8 inch depth of curve from that press.

I won't know how durable this method of construction is until he has fought with it for a while. I believe that it will be extremely durable, but time will tell. I clamped a section of the bottom corner I cut off the test shield in a vise and wailed on it with a hammer (simulating what happens to the top corner of one of our shields) with no effect what so ever. I also think the curvature of the shield will add to it's durability since it is difficult to strike it edge on.

-Justus

Looking for Shield Painter "Comm."/Trade @ Pennsic

Looking for Shield Painter "Comm."/Trade @ Pennsic

pics!