Equestrian combatants

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:07 pm

What style riding do you employ and why?
-V

Jonny Deuteronomy · Post by **Jonny Deuteronomy** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:32 pm

Western pleasure style with either western or aussie tack.
We use a very long-legged stirrup (with almost no bend to the knee).
This helps keep the center of gravity low which makes the rider more stable during and especially right after the violent shock from the lance.

There are some differences from 'pure' Western though, including foot cues and when and how to lean your body weight.

Modern English riding style does not seem very condusive to mounted combat with either lance or sword.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:42 pm

Medieval. Jousting any other way is stupid and a good way to come off quick. It is also better for mounted combat as well.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:46 pm

Elaborate!

SirAngus · Post by **SirAngus** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:58 pm

I take dressage lessons.. It's like broccoli... you learn it to become a better rider, but as someone who competes all over the world and cant bring thier horse, you get used to riding anything and everything! I've ridden friesian, arabs, thoughrobreds (sp?), percherons... you name it... And I have ridden in all sorts of tack from dressage saddles, to medieval replicas and everything in between... really... from Roman 4 lobed to Maclellans...

Get used to rising a horse and be able to adapt. I practice direct reign so that if I get a neck reigner, its easier... I also practice in a dressage saddle so that any kind of saddle that actually want to help you stay on the horse is a bonus!

Jonny Deuteronomy · Post by **Jonny Deuteronomy** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:01 pm

My training says:
Gig gently with the heels and make kissy smoochy noises to start off with a walk.
Gig again to trot.
Gig again with a tad more authority and perhaps say "HUP" to get a canter. One can start with this and skip the first 2 gaits - be sure to lean forward a little into the momentum at first - it should straighten you up when you take off.
Push forward gently with the stirrups to push your ass backwards (and lock) into the cantle or raised portion of the back of the saddle seat.
Keep your heels down and your toes up.
Rest the balls of your feet gently on the wide part of the stirrup.
Make sure the stirrups are loose on the sides of your boots - they must fall off easily or you wil get dragged.
Keep your legs down. Once one of your feet comes up too far you are GOIN DOWN.
Keep the horse collected AT ALL TIMES. This means not letting him spread his legs out wide into a full, uncontrolled run.
My horses are voice trained to gaits: you can actually tell them to walk, trot or HUP.
To turn, turn your foot outwards and point your toe in the direction that you want to turn (inside foot). Then use the reigns to turn his head. Keep a gentle steady pressure with the spur/heel/reigns until you have turned as far as you wish. To turn faster/harder, gig gently with the other foot (outside foot).
Reigns in the left hand at all times.
Reign hand directly on the neck/mane.
The reigns turn the front of the horse and the foot cues turn the back.
Sit up straight. Now sit up straighter than that, damn you!
Mane on the left side of the neck opposite your weapon hand to prevent fouling the weapon.
A right lead during joust passes, that means gently digging your right toe forward and in just a bit (into his "armpit") as you start off to get him to start out with the right front foot. This helps keep his head to the right and out of the combat zone. Some folks advocate a flying lead change at the point of impact but I ain't that good, nor am I sold on the value of that.
Kick the stirrups off before you fall!!!
Fall well or you will hurt yourself.
Train bareback so that a saddle is a bonus.

PS: I think that Leo, Angus and myself are/were all trained by Roy Cox of Westmoreland, Tennessee. One you learn to ride competently...seek ye the Cox and let him finish your training. Or if you are in a hurry just go to him and let him try to train you from scratch.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:43 pm

For military equestrian activities -

I ride in working saddles, or military saddles, long stirrups, and employ neck-reigning. We have been slowly comissioning, or replicating historical equipment, because saddles are designed for specific functions, and it makes sense if you are going to ride in harness, and fight from horseback, you should use the equipment historically used.

That said, it is important to learn to ride in every sort of saddle you can, and bareback, and learn multiple disciplines, to be a good horseman (and there is a world of diference between a rider and a horseman).

Learning the balanced seat, and learning to collect your horse is essentially the key to employing weapons successfully from horseback.

Tarquin Bjornsson · Post by **Tarquin Bjornsson** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:15 pm

All i have ever ridden is English. strictly because i wanted to jump. I have ridden all sorts of horses (broken and schooled many hunters), but only few for jousting.

I prefer a close contact saddle, with shorter stirrups. Just a comfort thing, i learned to ride in them and have stuck with them all along.

However that being said it is your seat that keeps you in the saddle, and i will willingly ride anything that's offered to me.

Glen K · Post by **Glen K** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 8:08 am

We often did jousting with english saddles... if you can stay on while doing that, you can stay on through anything!

To be honest, I have no idea what style I ride... I guess it's "Glen style". If it makes sense, I'm a superb rider, but a very poor horseman.

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:29 am

I am guessing when you all state English you mean Hunter English. There are really 3 types of English styles: Hunter (named for being used by hunters, short stirrups, red jackets and the like) Saddle Seat (or English Pleasure) this is more complex, longer stirrups, double bit bridle, higher stepping, higher headed) Park Seat (the flashiest. faster moving, higher headed, the horse never comes to a complete walk.)

I used to compete in all three, and I have found that an amalgamation of the first two and western plus some dressage works well.

Pretty much, you ride in a high cantle english saddle, with the long stirrups (as was mentioned for the center of gravity) as you would in saddle seat or park, neck reign and give leg commands.

When I used to do the choreographed jousting, where we would have to fall of on cue I found the no cantle , "cutback" saddle seat saddle worked very nicely.

Kenwrec Wulfe · Post by **Kenwrec Wulfe** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:52 pm

My basis is in western pleasure, trail and barrel racing with a bit of influence from English dressage, but I would hardly call myself an experienced person.

Anjouleme · Post by **Anjouleme** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:38 pm

I learned to ride bareback before anything else, and highly recommend it for anyone who is learning. It made all the difference in the world for me. Because of it, I can ride almost any horse, regardless of tack, regardless of conditions. I've even jumped horses bareback without bridles before. I even just re-authorized advanced SCA equestrian without a saddle. I've ridden all 4 seats, played polo crosse, fox hunted in England, herded horses in Texas, trained Arabians, competed in dressage, combined training and cross country jumping and have a BS degree in Equestrian Science. Not mentioning this to brag, but to let you know that I have some experience with what I'm talking about here. My recommendation for SCA combat would be something along the lines of an understated Australian Stock Saddle without horn if you're looking for something modern to stand up as a close medieval equivalent. It adds stability to seat because of the high cantle and high leg supporters in front and it's really hard to fall out of. The only time I ever did (even in heavy Polo Crosse use) was when the girth was not tight enough and the saddle slid off the horse's back. You see the same type seats in both old style Roman military saddle reproductions (where no stirrups were used) and in jousting saddles of the middle ages (with stirrups).

Just my 2 cents on the topic.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:54 pm

Having no experience with it myself, I've often wondered if the single-hand/double-bit reining, used by many polo players and the spiffy Horse Guards at Westminster Palace, would work well for mounted combat.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:07 pm

Blaine de Navarre wrote:Having no experience with it myself, I've often wondered if the single-hand/double-bit reining, used by many polo players and the spiffy Horse Guards at Westminster Palace, would work well for mounted combat.

Well, the spiffy horse-gaurds at St. James palace are riding with a calvary bit, developed for use in combat.

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 6:15 pm

I think it depends on the horses mouth and the type of bits used.
If the horse has an overly sensitive mouth than I don't think a double bit would be all that great for SCA combat.

I have often thought that the best horse one could find for this sort of thing now a days would be a retired police horse.