Lamellar Manufacture

Infectious · Post by **Infectious** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:40 pm

Lacking any kind of bandsaw, circular saw, or bench shears to cut lamellar from sheet, I've tried aviation snips. But it seems no matter which I try, they always seem to mangle and bend the edges. I've got a good amount of patience, so what I'm asking is: are a hacksaw with good blades, a roper-whitney punch, and a good set of files enough to make quality lamellar plates?

iaenmor · Post by **iaenmor** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:58 pm

Shouldn't be any reason not to be able to. Just going to take more time than with power tools. You can pretty much bet there wasn't a huge amount of power tools back then.

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:05 pm

They made quality lamellar plates in the past without power tools. I see no reason why you should not be able to as well.

Infectious · Post by **Infectious** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:23 pm

Any tips? My plan is to draw the grid on with a ruler and a marker, use the saw to cut out the plates, punch in the holes with the whitney punch, then use the files to round off the corners and de-bur the edges the holes. And then perhaps do a little engraving or etching or whatever if I'm inclined.

arty dave · Post by **arty dave** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:43 pm

...but there are better ways than spending your time getting frustrated with a hacksaw. Sure you CAN do it, but you're going to be doing it for months.

Start by telling us where you are, what material you're using (Al, mild, stainless?) and how thick that material is. If you're lucky enough someone from here or maybe someone in a local group may offer a little shop time to at least get some strip lengths cut with shears or bandsaw - from there you could use your snips to cut the lames and tap the wobbles out on each end with a hammer. If you cant find someone then take your sheet metal to a shop and get them to cut it into strip. Where I live it costs $1 per cut. Filing shouldn't take too long and you might want to snip the corners off your lames before filing them round.

The punching will also take time - I'm not trying to put you off! I've heard of people punching holes in a suits worth of lames. There is big satisfaction in the finished product doing this yourself. Once you've got all your lames cut, edges finished and holes punched I recommend lightly dishing them - they will take more abuse and resist deforming.

When I made lames I didn't have a punch - I made a jig to stack 10 lames with a 2mm stainless top plate drilled with my hole layout. Drilling ten lames at a time saved me a lot of time and probably a lot of rsi type pain if I'd used one of the smaller sized roper whitneys. Took maybe 5 mins to drill 80 holes. Downside is you need access to a drill press - you wouldn't be able to do it this way with a hand drill. With cutting fluid or water and a slow speed setting you can keep a drill bit going for many, many holes. But I guess if you've already got a punch and some good movies to watch you could happily punch your way through the evening.

But I was also busy with other stuff - I think it took me a few months to get the lames cut, finished, drilled and dished. By the time you've done all that the lacing seems easy!

Welcome to the archive Infectious,
Hope this helps. Cheers,
Dave

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:46 pm

If all else failed you could use a cold chisel to cut them out. Most are straight cuts anyway. It takes a long time and a lot of hammering, but it will work.

But....I agree with Dave, if you find someone close with the tools, most of us would be glad to help you out....BTW, I am in Pennsylvania.

arty dave · Post by **arty dave** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:47 pm

Good point about de-burring the holes! One of my most used tools is a hole-deburrer.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:49 pm

Is there something else you can do that you could sell or trade for
pre-cut plates?

'cause damn that is gonna take forever.......

Unless the making of the plates is part of the project, I'd
really consider buying or bartering for them.

arty dave · Post by **arty dave** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:52 pm

If I had to do it again I wouldn't - I'd get them laser cut. You'd be lacing them together by the end of the week. But I was a broke student...sniff...

polarbearforge · Post by **polarbearforge** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 9:08 pm

Infectious wrote:Lacking any kind of bandsaw, circular saw, or bench shears to cut lamellar from sheet, I've tried aviation snips. But it seems no matter which I try, they always seem to mangle and bend the edges. I've got a good amount of patience, so what I'm asking is: are a hacksaw with good blades, a roper-whitney punch, and a good set of files enough to make quality lamellar plates?

Sure! You can do that.

arty dave wrote:If I had to do it again I wouldn't - I'd get them laser cut.

But that would be the way I would go.....

Jamie

Christophe de Frisselle · Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:22 pm

Bench Shear. Make nice little rectangles. Alittle grinding, drill some holes. Bam, Lamellar.

Though WaterJet or LASER cutting would have been nice.

Kindyr · Post by **Kindyr** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:26 pm

one other tool I would recommend would be some kind of center punch, for marking the holes.

I actually have a set of lamellar in process right now being built pretty much the same way you are. I was able to cut my metal with hand shears, so either mmy metal is thinner(likely, it's probably 22ga galvi from a ductwork place's dumpster.the price was right for this project) or my shears are more robust(was using an old set of large tin snips. not compound action)

Since I didn't want to be cutting forever, I made them a bit larger than many of the plates I could find online. I think they are 2.120X3.25" in hindsite, I probably should have just made them the size of a standard credit card, since that would have given me a sturdier template. I didn't bother cutting the corners round at this point.

but after I cut out the plates I spent a few more holes with the template and just center punching all of the holes I would need. I used an automatic punch, which worked, but some of the punches are not quite deep enought to naturally center on my RW #5. but having the holes physically marked on the plates does make things go faster.

now I just have 7 billion holes to punch. ok, not quite. more like 2,100, but it feels like 7 billion some times, which is why this is a side project to work on when I have TV time, or whatever.

once I have the holes punched, I'm going to clamp several plates rogether and use my angle grinder and flap disk to round corner on them. then deburred the holes, and lace.

no clue when I'll actually get the set done, but I know by now that it will get done, just to prove I can do it.

as someone else said, information on material being used, and your location may provide more insight in your best options or opportunities to get these plates cut than a hacksaw.

and having now seen the amount of work that goes into each plate if you do them by hand. if I like lamellar enough, I'll send money to Jamie and let his laser cutter make the plates for me.

Clinker · Post by **Clinker** » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:31 pm

New snips, or old, tweaked snips? Dont let the material twist out of your grasp and end up stuck between the cutting edges, It will create a gap between the edges (tweaked) and give a poor cut. That said, ALL snips or shears will bend the edge over a bit. The big tin snips are far better than aviation snips, longer cut, takes only one cut per lame. Buy new, not used, probably-tweaked snips.

Take a small hammer, and beat them flat on a metal "anvil". Then a quick pass or three with a fine file and you are good. Or better, just file the sharp edge side of the cut, no hammering step needed then, the top side is already rounded.There is no free lunch in cutting/punching/drilling metal. You MUST deburr.

Deburring holes with a larger drill bit or something is a good idea.

Infectious · Post by **Infectious** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:37 am

It would be quite easy to send plates off for cutting or to buy them pre-cut - Polar Bear Forge springs to mind - but I am only a poor college student with about $70 to get this project started (as in, just getting the plates made. The lacing and leather edging will be paid for once all the plates are done.)
The material will be 18ga mild steel.
I'm thankful for the offer of letting me use your tools. I'm in Houston, SW Houston, to be specific. I'm away right now but I'll be back on August 15th.

iaenmor · Post by **iaenmor** » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:39 am

Infectious, I live just NW of Houston. PM me when you get back and lets see what we can do for you.

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:50 pm

I bought my steel cut into metal bands of the width I wanted and then cut them to the size I wanted. I then used a guide clamped ten together and grinded them to the shape I wanted. Still took a long time and the clean up was a lot of grinding but the shirt turned out very nice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ronninscott/3729910539/

Alec · Post by **Alec** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:46 pm

Sextus,

That is a great looking squamata. What gauge metal did you use?

Alec

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:48 pm

Roughly 22 gauge or .032 410 Spring Stainless. I had all the scales heat treated as well so they do not rust or buckle.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:42 pm

I would literally kill myself before making lamellar. Almost as bad as making mail. :shock:

Christophe de Frisselle · Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:48 pm

audax wrote:I would literally kill myself before making lamellar. Almost as bad as making mail.

Hello, I a masochist. I made mine out of 0.032 Titanium. At least it doesn't rust or get bent.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:49 pm

Christophe de Frisselle wrote:
audax wrote:I would literally kill myself before making lamellar. Almost as bad as making mail.

Hello, I a masochist. I made mine out of 0.032 Titanium. At least it doesn't rust or get bent.

I'd have to be medicated.

Sextus Maximus · Post by **Sextus Maximus** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:16 pm

Its really no that bad just repitition and patience. I just did one small part at a time and then it was done...

Moog · Post by **Moog** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:29 pm

Ok. 18Ga mild steel. Please for you life dont try the hack saw. Either get a nice pair of tin snips or get an engineering place to do it for you. If you have ever made chainmail before then hacksaw will be fine but really. Save yourself alot of pain. Tin snips are gonna be needed for other projects anyways.

mordreth · Post by **mordreth** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:43 am

audax wrote:I would literally kill myself before making lamellar. Almost as bad as making mail.

I prefer to think of both as soul enriching zen experiences

audax · Post by **audax** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 2:05 pm

mordreth wrote:
audax wrote:I would literally kill myself before making lamellar. Almost as bad as making mail.

I prefer to think of both as soul enriching zen experiences

Last time I made mail, my soul was so enriched I had a psychotic break.

Moog · Post by **Moog** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 7:30 pm

haha. wow. when i do mail i have a mental self image of a grandma knitting a scarf. I find it relaxing.

Infectious · Post by **Infectious** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 2:37 pm

As do I.

In regards to the hacksaw comment, do you mean as in, it will be time-consuming, or as in, it will be nearly impossible to make it cut?

Moog · Post by **Moog** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 4:05 pm

Time consuming mostly. get a long saw so you can do long strokes to make it easier for yourself. if you find blisters painful then it will be painful but mostly just tedious. i think it would be more painful but less tedious if you used a good pair of tin snips. thats what i would do.

Lorccan · Post by **Lorccan** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:20 pm

Also, if you're going to saw 18 ga, you should find some way to clamp it down securely. This may be obvious, but a lot of people miss the obvious. Your labor will be much more efficient with a properly secured workpiece, even if you have to loosen the clamps and re-position the piece often.

Shears would be so much easier, though! Shears may cause nicks or tears at the end of a cut, when you squeeze them all the way closed. You might have to stop short of cutting all the way before you open your shears and move them further into the material. If the shears are just bending the edges a bit, just keep going and hammer them flat with a wood/rawhide/plastic mallet when you have a bunch cut out. It's pretty quick and easy.

Sheared cuts are going to be easier to de-burr than saw cuts, too!

Moog · Post by **Moog** » Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:27 pm

agreed with lorccan.

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