14th Century Hip protection?

AaronCarter · Post by **AaronCarter** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:08 pm

How do I protect the area between my Curias and my quices acurately?

I've faught some without it and have determined that I don't like taking shots to an unarmoured hip.

I've seen what looks like a leather skirt with Faulds or lamalar plates on the inside. Is this acurate?

and how would this atatch? I'm thinking pointed to the Curias, or independantly hanging from the hips.

Pics are always apriciated.

Thanks
Aaron

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:19 pm

A haubergeon would be the protection. However, most SCA fighters won't touch maille for several factors.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:23 pm

Leo Medii wrote:A haubergeon would be the protection. However, most SCA fighters won't touch maille for several factors.

fools!

AaronCarter · Post by **AaronCarter** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:31 pm

Do you find that Mail will protect against ratan?

es02 · Post by **es02** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:42 pm

AaronCarter wrote:I've seen what looks like a leather skirt with Faulds or lamalar plates on the inside. Is this acurate?

and how would this atatch? I'm thinking pointed to the Curias, or independantly hanging from the hips.

Pics are always apriciated.

faulds - generally of the hooped variety - are suitable for covered cuirasses. They are attached to an outer shell of canvas and velvet or of leather then sewn to the bottom of the same covering on your breast/backplates.

AFAIK pointed to the cuirass or attached to the hips for plate faulds is anachronistic for late 14thC. IIRC you can do a maille skirt. If your doing late 14th you should have a mid-thigh length maille shirt anyway.

this one iirc is in a museum in germany.

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:53 pm

AaronCarter wrote:Do you find that Mail will protect against ratan?

No not really. But more people should wear mail.

AaronCarter · Post by **AaronCarter** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:58 pm

I'm all for wearing mail, but I'm against bone bruises on my hip from a ratan great sword.

My Curias isn't covered, so does anything other than mail need to be hidden?

Tomburr · Post by **Tomburr** » Thu Sep 03, 2009 11:59 pm

^ I agree. My part of my kingdom is lousy with Vikings, and just about nobody among them wears any maille...not even voiders. Craziness.

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:08 am

There are some faulds seen in artwork. Most notably the pistoia altarpiece. Someone post the pics. Or it's in AAOMK if you've got it.

Look at the triangular fauld and look VERY closely at the guy on the horse with his back to you.

Other alternatives are the covered breastplate and fauld. Not with leather.

Also a coat of plates works. There is a decent amount of artwork showing coats of plates that come down to mid thigh.

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:59 am

How do I protect the area between my Curias and my quices acurately?

I've faught some without it and have determined that I don't like taking shots to an unarmoured hip.

I've seen what looks like a leather skirt with Faulds or lamalar plates on the inside. Is this acurate?

and how would this atatch? I'm thinking pointed to the Curias, or independantly hanging from the hips.

Pics are always apriciated.

What time period are you representing? The answer will depend on it.

In the 14th century, your body armour would be a quilted arming coat that extends to about mid-thigh, followed by a shirt of maille that would come down to about mid-thigh. This would overlap your cuisses (thigh armour) and provide some protection in this region. On top of the maille shirt would be your rigid armour. A coat of plates would protect the torso, and the leather skirt for it might extend beyond your hips somewhat, though probably not much. Later, as the coat of plates evolved into a more rigid, though still covered breast plate, you tend to see horizontal lames descend from the breast plate to cover the hips. These are called faulds.

Steve

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:26 am

As Steve noted, theres quite a bit of difference in the answer depending on if you want 14th century (1301) or 14th century (1400). Judging from your references to cuirass and cuisses, I suspect you're in the second half of the the century.

(BTW, although medieval spelling is often quite varied, you might want to look at the difference between a curia and a cuirass.)

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:41 am

Hang a nifty little buckler from that hip till you learn to block it.

Take the buckler as armour.

Easy peasy and cheap.

(I did it for a while when I changed to heater)

Milan H · Post by **Milan H** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:09 am

A decent gambeson goes a long way too in reducing impact and bruising.

Cheers!

Lord_Wolf · Post by **Lord_Wolf** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:55 am

You could wear a mail skirt instead of a full shirt. Also you could put plates in pockets on the inside of your gambeson, if you feel that padding and mail aren't enough.

Leikr · Post by **Leikr** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:59 am

I have the same problem, my shield has a hole in it I think

. I have made up a padded cuisses that will will point to an arming vest until I can get a gambeson made. I am still finishing it off so I am not sure if it will do the trick, but it seems like it may help, especial when combined with an overlapping gambeson.

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:12 pm

Hi there, These C-belts I make from 14 oz leather certainly armor the area you mentioned. They arent period but you cant really see them and they hold your leg armor up better than anything ive found.

Take care

Pitbull

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:21 pm

I wear a c-belt like the one above. Between the "real" gambeson (ie, not sported light gambeson for SCA) and the maille I am well protected in that area.

If you have light stuff, it will not work like the more accurate stuff.

It all depends on what you want to protect, and what you wish to portray while protecting it.

Munz · Post by **Munz** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:59 pm

I have a friend that has a very clever solution for his 14th cent kit. His globose doesn't have a fauld, so he has attached one of the plastic shoulder plates from a used pair of football shoulder pads to his C-belt. One plate over each hip bone. What's great is that they are already curved and they will stand up to tough hits! They stay very well hidden under his gambeson and they give great protection. I think he bought the shoulder pads used from Play It Again for next to nothing.

My CoP is just long enough to cover this sensitive area. But his method is clean and easy. I give it high marks on problem solving. It does get low marks on the historical scale, but as it is never seen that shouldn't be a big drawback.

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:27 pm

There are a few folks out there who wear padding as armor.

If you take two layers of cotton duck canvas, 10 oz or so, and stitch 1" apart in that canvas, and then stuff the bejeezus out of those channels with dryer lint, then what you end up with is every bit as protective as 16 oz leather and not much thicker.

Edit: should have mentioned that you could fashion an entire gambeson out of this and then you've got period look and good protection.

Paul the Small · Post by **Paul the Small** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:50 pm

AaronCarter wrote:Do you find that Mail will protect against ratan?

I've taken some really hard shots on mine and still haven't brused. I wear a gambison made of two layers of 100% cotton batting in between two layers of linen.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:58 am

A heavy plaque belt.

Clinker · Post by **Clinker** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:07 am

Scale skirt. Especialy for Germany and more eastern parts of Europe than France. Large scales 2"X3" or so. Hardened leather or perhaps 18-20 ga metal.

Only example i could find easily:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Li7M_- ... rn&f=false

Scroll up a bit to about a quarter of the way.

Odd · Post by **Odd** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:43 am

A properly made gambeson that cover the hip, with a layer of mail over it will do amazing things to protect your bones. Works like this.

Force = Mass x Acceleration.

You need to remove either mass, or acceleration to reduce the force. A heavy chain skirt will have enough mass to counter a good bit of the shot. The gambeson beneath will slow the shot further before the impact transfers to your body. What is left of the shot will let you know if it is good or not.

Remember, SCA armor assumption is Gambeson+Chain+ Nasal helm. (Unless I'm wrong, of course) So if you feel some stanky on a shot to your body armored this way, you know, accurately, if the hip shot was good.

BTW.. the chain skirt also takes the stanky out of a j-hook. Unless it is an excessive j-hook, in which case you likely deserve some of that stanky.

Theodore · Post by **Theodore** » Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:30 pm

My gambeson is about all I wear on that area, but if I fought greatswords all the time I might get tired of it. The gambeson is padded with 2 layers of cotton terry cloth bath towel. I use one layer on areas that are under plate or don't get hit and the second layer in areas that take a beating.
I wear used to wear a lighter (8 ounce) C-belt under my gambeson but have been using a HE pourpoint and haven't noticed a difference.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:19 am

Time to go back to the effigies...Everything you need to know is there. :wink:

http://talbotsfineaccessories.com/armou ... lysis.html

Qwertypolk · Post by **Qwertypolk** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:23 pm

I find maille works fine, though if you're against the use of maille, faults would work well, depending on your period.

14th Century Hip protection?

14th Century Hip protection?

Re: 14th Century Hip protection?

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