4 point chin strap.

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:51 pm

I bought a custom helm from Windrose some time back and forgot to mention mt very jewish nose. The helm fits well but wearing a standard chin strap I get hit on the top of my nose everytime I get hit in the head.

I've been told that a 4 point chinstrap will fix this, and I remember that sometime ago there was a very good discussion on how to make one, but I cant find it.

Can ya help me?

-Ivan

Who wants to use his pretty SS Brass wenseslaus nasaled helm very much.

Edit: I didn't mean to type Mount Very Jewish Nose in the first sentence but the visual is hilarious.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:53 pm

here's what I use:

raito · Post by **raito** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:00 pm

A 4-point strap will definitely stop the helm hitting your nose if the problem is that the helm tilts forward when you get hit (it's likely). But if the problem is that the helm is too close to your nose, and the padding is compressing, a 4 point won't help.

dominic · Post by **dominic** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:18 pm

I too have a prodigious schnoz and I sweat by the 4-point system. I use pretty muck the same layout for mounting the straps as InsaneIrish has in his diagram, but I just use two simple straps and buckles.

If you can get the strap across your chin set nice and deep, it will go a long way to pull the faceplate/grill away from your nose and keep it there.

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:59 pm

Thanks,

Viscount Dan up here uses one for his hat and his (not jewish) nose clears his grill by 1/4" or so, yet it is never hit due to the 4 point chin strap. Passes inspection every time.

Figure it could do the same for me.

-Ivan

Edit: Irish- What kind of measurements do I need to make that arn't in the pictograph?

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:57 pm

usualy the strap placement is based on the helm being padded the top point is at the temple the bottom strap mounds near your jaw hinge.

don · Post by **don** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:17 am

Two ideas:

1. make a letter "I" in some leather with the middle on the smallish side and the top/bottom about a foot-foot and a half long.

2. find a chinstrap for a football helmet and attach that into your helm.

Please don't jump on me, as these are just ideas.

Don

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:15 pm

losthelm wrote:usualy the strap placement is based on the helm being padded the top point is at the temple the bottom strap mounds near your jaw hinge.

Basically what Losthelm said.

I don't have any hard measurements since I build new chin straps off my old straps.

But, the small joining strap between the top and bottoms straps is about 1".

The velcro at the top of the temple straps allows you to fine adjust the chinstrap vertically, and the jawline straps are tightened on friction buckles.

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:20 am

One more question:What is the approx size of the webbing & is it cotton or nylon?

-Ivan

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 3:38 am

3/4" to 1" across. Material to taste. I think most people land in the middle and use leather, mainly because they already have it around the shop and likewise some suitable buckles with tongues. A little work with a Strap-Cutter and a sewing awl and hey-presto!

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:58 am

I used 1" because I could only find heavy duty friction buckles in 1" wide. I also used nylon webbing, leather was to thick to fit through the buckles.

I really like the style of chin strap. But, I am working on trying to find a way to switch out the black nylon for leather.

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:12 pm

Huh, a trend.
I'm not Jewish but my honker sticks out more than most.
And my Windrose helm was a problem from day 1.

Initially, I took it back to Johannes the next Pennsic, and said it was too close to my nose. He put it on the ground on its side, put his foot inside of it, and used his other foot to stomp the crap out of it (with a master's precision, of course) until it stretched the whole thing out enough so that it didn't contact my nose when it was on.

The problem was, it was simply never comfortable for me. I didn't want that bar touching my nose at all, so I ended up cinching the chinstrap (4-point) so tight that I was fighting buck-toothed.

So a couple years ago I decided to remove his bargrill and do the whole front of the helm over. Now it not only doesn't touch my nose, but it also has an removable bevor which cradles my chin and anchors to the helm, so I don't have a chin strap at all. And it's custom fit.

I don't know if that's an option for you, but it certainly worked out for me.

Thigvald · Post by **Thigvald** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:58 pm

schreiber wrote:Huh, a trend.
I'm not Jewish but my honker sticks out more than most.
And my Windrose helm was a problem from day 1.

Initially, I took it back to Johannes the next Pennsic, and said it was too close to my nose. He put it on the ground on its side, put his foot inside of it, and used his other foot to stomp the crap out of it (with a master's precision, of course) until it stretched the whole thing out enough so that it didn't contact my nose when it was on.

The problem was, it was simply never comfortable for me. I didn't want that bar touching my nose at all, so I ended up cinching the chinstrap (4-point) so tight that I was fighting buck-toothed.

So a couple years ago I decided to remove his bargrill and do the whole front of the helm over. Now it not only doesn't touch my nose, but it also has an removable bevor which cradles my chin and anchors to the helm, so I don't have a chin strap at all. And it's custom fit.

I don't know if that's an option for you, but it certainly worked out for me.

Pics?

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:28 pm

schreiber wrote: I don't know if that's an option for you, but it certainly worked out for me.

Nope HERE is a pic of my new (and mostly unused) helm and my old one. I do early period mail drape helm stuff, I just can't afford the mail drape as of yet.

Some day when I have lots of cash I will get a liftable grill early period helm using a mail drap of the face to hide the non periodness.

-Ivan

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Tue Oct 13, 2009 8:06 pm

Yeah, Windrose seems pretty fond of doing the 4-rivet attachment. It's strong and probably really expedient.

It also means that if you redo the grill there is a minimum of monkey work.

You know, I can't really tell what's going on with the nasal, but... if it were mine, I'd be really tempted to drill out those four rivets, then, if there's enough meat on the tabs holding it in, re-punching the mounting holes so that the whole dang thing sits farther out.

Unfortunately, the grill probably has a bar that sits right up against the sides, which helps to anchor it to the helm. If that's not the case, then I'd try repositioning it, but if it is the case, then you'd have to insert a new bar farther back.

Of course, the nasal probably stops any of that from happening.

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:37 am

schreiber wrote:I'm not Jewish but my honker sticks out more than most.

With a trip to the Mohel (pronounced moyel) we could change that

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 6:52 pm

But a mohel usually concerns himself with points farther south.

Payn · Post by **Payn** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:03 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:But a mohel usually concerns himself with points farther south.

let's not make a mt out of a mohel.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:33 pm

Makes a possibly editable gesture ref'ing the loathsome, itchy, contagious, and black-spotting Pepper Pox. See Tom K. Ryan.

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:32 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:But a mohel usually concerns himself with points farther south.

that's the point, a flick of the wrist a few blessings later,& his nose is now Jewish

Oskar der Drachen · Post by **Oskar der Drachen** » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:01 am

Greetings!

I just made a chin strap to this pattern. I am bearded, and I found the following modification of great help in getting the chin strap settled.

I added a loop to the bottom of the strap that goes under my chin. What this lets me do is get a finger in the loop as I'm putting my helmet on. I don't have to scrabble past my beard to get a hold on the nylon webbing.

The action is much smoother, and thank you for the great pattern! I modified the sketch with what I did. I'll get a picture of the modification and post that too.

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:05 pm

Ohhh.... I like that! That's a great idea! I'm going to add it to mine.

I'm going to move the lower buckles to the front. It'll make it harder to tighten when putting on but lot's easier to take off.

-Ivan

Thorsteinn Raudskeggr · Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:01 pm

Well I made it as per the pattern with the addition of the chin loop.

Have yet to fight in it as it was 19'F with blowing snow at the park where we hold practice on sunday.

I got all the nylon bits at REI for a good price, and the chin loop has proved to be an absolute must. Thank You Oskar!

Just need to finish the padding quirks and it'll be good to go.

-Ivan