Kunsthistorisches Museum - New Flickr Set

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Gerhard von Liebau
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Kunsthistorisches Museum - New Flickr Set

Post by Gerhard von Liebau »

Hey folks,

Here's a finalized set on my Flickr account that I just set up of photographs I took at the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna, Austria during my trip there back in '06. I posted a thread upon my return but uploaded about 40 of these photos only, and put them directly onto the archive. Here's an easier look at it all! Enjoy. :)

Oh, and feel free to use these for whatever research purposes you may have for them! Re-posting them elsewhere is fine.

-Gregory

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45665351@N ... 612075258/
lorenzo2
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Post by lorenzo2 »

Thanks for sharing.
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Post by Tibbie Croser »

Thanks very much; I really enjoy the unusual pieces of armor during the transition from the 15th- to 16th-century styles. I especially like the Karl V suit, and most especially the helmet. Would that be considered a late armet or an early close helm? What sort of faceplate(s) would have gone with it?

The "pumpkinhead" grillwork tournament helm is fascinating. I saw these in a painting in Arms and Armour of the Medieval Knight, but had not previously seen an extant example.
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Post by jamesn_13 »

Fascinating pictures, Thanks alot for posting
James
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Post by Gerhard von Liebau »

I believe that helm is an armet, Flittie. I do not know if it originally had a faceplate to begin with, actually. It is a parade harness, and it was often favored to expose the head in these sort of armours, as later parade pieces show (burgonets were much more popular for this application than close helms).

A few of the images seem to have been mislabeled. I noticed a late Gothic harness titled as "Maximilian." I'll go through it as soon as I can to check and make sure things are correct. Cheers!

-Gregory
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Post by Klaus the Red »

Thanks, GL, that's good stuff! My wife's aunt was just recommending that collection to us over dinner this evening, since we are going to try to do an Austria/Germany/E. Europe trip next year. It's on my must-visit list now along with the Zeughaus in Graz. :)

K
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Post by Jiri Klepac »

Gregory, thank you, there is never too many of them :-)

best

Jiri
Tibbie Croser
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Post by Tibbie Croser »

So parade helmets often had open faces? OK, that explains the open faces on a number of fancy 16th-century helmets I've seen in other Internet pictures from museums.

Some of these open-face designs strike me as ones that could be adapted for SCA patterns with the addition of removable grills or perforated faceplates.

How separate was parade armor from tournament armor? I know some garnitures had pieces that were interchangeable for tournament and field use.
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Post by Gerhard von Liebau »

How separate was parade armor from tournament armor? I know some garnitures had pieces that were interchangeable for tournament and field use.


Most parade armour was used entirely for show. Tournament armours, in particular, were made with thicker plate and had interchangeable components as you mentioned. I've never seen a parade harness with any kind of crazy embossing or repousse work that was doubled for field or tournament use. Men who could afford these harnesses were wealthy enough to own armours for each specific role, and would not worry about a single harness having enough interchangeable pieces to use for multiple affairs after spending so lavishly on them!

Some garnitures were equipped for both field and tournament use, yes, but this is understandable because the qualities of a tournament harness are not that different from what was required for field use. Lighten the cuirass by removing the additional plates, switch out the gauntlets for lighter (often fingered) ones and remove any face or shoulder reinforcements, et voila.

This, however, is beyond what would could expect of parade armour. The amount of detailed etching, repousse and embossing that went into most of these harnesses typically made the harness a bit more bulky for the amount of protection afforded, and oftentimes impractical components would be added to parade harnesses for extra flair or to capture the spirit of "Alla Romantica," or the Roman era. Rarely have I seen designs for parade armours that include extra components, making them less than a real garniture.

-Gregory
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Post by chef de chambre »

Armours purely for parade, and not actual use are more of a mid 16th century phenomenon.

Medieval armours could achieve sartorial spendour including being entirely gilt, and even set with "jewels", and still be intended for field use. Heavy repoussing isn't a hallmark of Medieval armour in general, however.
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Post by Tibbie Croser »

Speaking of "alla antica" armors, in Alan Young's book Tudor and Jacobean Tournaments, there is a period drawing from the mid-1500s of two knights in foot combat (without barriers) wearing Roman-inspired armor: their breastplates resemble musculatae and the faulds resemble pteruges.
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Post by CLANG »

Hey-great pics-thanks for making them available.

At the risk of sounding greedy, is there a way to download them as a packet, instead of individually?
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Post by egiuss »

Is that really armour of Nikolaus IV of Lithuania? I cannot find any piece of information about his connections to Lithuania.
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Post by Armadillo »

Along with everyone, thank you for posting these photos. I've been looking for an overall photo of the Half-Harness #5 for some time. I made sketches of it but was out of disk space by the time I got half-way through that gallery.

Cheers, Adair
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Post by Gerhard von Liebau »

I've had trouble finding solid evidence of Nikolaus IV being connected to Lithuania as well. I believe he was heir to a Lithuanian leader, but he is most prominently considered Polish. I edited the photograph's caption.

As for the amount of images that I do not have details on, I wish I had been more prepared at the time to write down information on each piece, but I only had two hours in the museum so I had to choose between details or photographs, and I knew the photos were more desirable! My next trip will be much more worthwhile as I believe the renovation that was underway during my trip (closing half of the arms and armour displays) are now completed, and I'll be able to spend much more time there. This next summer, if I'm lucky...

Clang, no idea how to upload full sections. I've always wanted to do this on THOog's photostream as well. That guy has so many good images from all the American museums!

-Gregory
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Henry of Bexley
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Post by Henry of Bexley »

To clarify, in 1385 Lithuania and Poland effectively became one state with the Union of Krewo, so Nick could be from, well, both, effectively.
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Post by egiuss »

The title "union" of Krewo is misleading. It was jus a record of proposals to clarify promises of marriage. This is not the treaty that made Lithuania and Poland one country. It is believed that treaty has been signed sometime in Jaggielo ruling period.
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Post by Chris - GSMBristol »

Glorious mid 16th Century half harnesses. Sweet bippy!
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Post by Dire Wolf »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/45665351@N ... 612075258/

Perhaps a Scharfrennen armour ? = armour for tourney with pointy lances.
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Post by Boris R. »

hey sorry for resurrecting this thread, but i was wondering about something
would the 16.century armouries had some sort of "catalogue" or maybe an art sketcbook for more extravagant garnitures, something from where the would be buyers could, well choose the design? and if yes, are there any survivng examples of it today? i cant imagine all the diverse expensive armour made just to sit on stock and await for wealthy buyers to take a liking on them
Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
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Post by J.G.Elmslie »

Boris R. wrote:hey sorry for resurrecting this thread, but i was wondering about something
would the 16.century armouries had some sort of "catalogue" or maybe an art sketcbook for more extravagant garnitures, something from where the would be buyers could, well choose the design? and if yes, are there any survivng examples of it today? i cant imagine all the diverse expensive armour made just to sit on stock and await for wealthy buyers to take a liking on them


there's certainly surviving books of the greenwich harnesses, made by Jacob Halder, which were a listing of the decoration and details. peices of harnesses have been identified from it. If my memory serves me the book of designs is in the V&A museum, in london.

Attached image is one page from it.
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2006AV8286copy.jpg
2006AV8286copy.jpg (97.84 KiB) Viewed 62 times
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Post by Jon Terris »

That is known as the "Almain Album" attributed to Jacob Halder from the Grenwich Armouries. Beleived to be a armourer/etcher/customer design book it does correspond to several surviving harnesses.

The Victoria and Albert also has a work by Fillipo Orsoni which was possibly intended as a little more of an advertising tool. It can be seen on the link below;

http://www.vam.ac.uk/collections/period ... index.html

There was one by Lorenz Helmschmid (called the Thun Sketchbook) which was apparently more of a rough "doodle" pad but it was destroyed during WWII. Some photos of some of the pages do survive though.

JonT
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Post by Boris R. »

JonT,
this book by Orsoni is magnificient! :shock:

exactly what i was looking for!!!
Oh, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
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