Mounting a leather aventail on a conical or phrygian

[Italo Norman]

I saw this pic and the mounting is so flawless..how do you think it was done?

[Kjott.Thorgrimsson]

That is Sir Graedwyn:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... ile&u=6425

If I am correct they added the drape when the helm was constructed and the leather is between the sides and the dome of the helm.

[Gest]

What kind of maille do you think Sir Graedwyn is wearing? SS welded, butted, riveted, etc...

-- Gest

[Kjott.Thorgrimsson]

What kind of maille do you think Sir Graedwyn is wearing? SS welded, butted, riveted, etc...

-- Gest

He wears mild riveted maille. I have the pleasure to fight with him every week here at the local practice.

[Konstantin the Red]

My, Graedwyn and the other fellow both show some mighty good low-profile hidden-armor kits! Graedwyn's is the snazzier of the two, but the fellow in the white tunic concedes very little in the concealment department. The two of them really show how low-pro/no-pro can be done, with only a minimum of "printing through" from their hard spots. Even their plate gaunts don't disturb the impression too badly, despite White Tunic's [ETA: Bors'] sport-armor Kydex mitts.

White Tunic [Bors] shows us the distinctive wider profile of the spun-top conical, side by side with a scratchbuilt, ovalized, more compact conical helmet. Standard, yea traditional, SCA construction is displayed here to advantage.

Never uploaded an image here; could I just crosspost that image to one of the "Show Me Your Kits" threads by linking, or uploading through the browser? It seems to me a valuable one that ought to be distributed.

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

The one in the "white" (actually a tan/brown tunic) is Bors, Sir Graedwyn's squire.

[Konstantin the Red]

Was wondering if that might be a squire's belt.

[Graedwyn]

Aw, you guys . . .
I generally like to keep
"low profile" in all that I do.
So a thread that starts out with
a picture of me, makes me nervous.

First let me say that Bors has a beautiful
new helmet made be Alexander Caithness
(here on the Archive). It fits him well,
and has given him a great boost in moral,
and thus prowess.
The crown of my helmet was made by
Grettir the Slow, who also made my
wonderful gauntlets.
As Kjott said, when I attached the neck guard,
I inserted spacers between the helmet and
the neck guard so that the leather could slip up
underneath the helmet to give the impression
that it is a leather coif rather than an aventail.
I based this interpretation on the Bayeux Tapestry,
particularly the scene where two men at arms are
setting Dol castle to the torch.
Both of their coifs appear to be plain and brown,
whereas most other coifs on the Tapestry are the
same color as the hauberks, with some attempt
at showing mail links.

Gentlemen, thank you for your kind words about
our kits.
I do strive to keep my appearance as much like
that of the men at arms on the Tapestry as is
possible within an SCA context.
My hauberk is a flattened, wedge riveted mild steel
from Von Sussen. It is tailored, and a joy to wear
and fight in. I wear nothing but a kidney belt and
tunic underneath. It protects well.
Bors usually wears a flattened, round riveted hauberk
also, but he is not as fastidious about keeping it in
repair as I am about mine,
so I have been "encouraging" him not to wear it
when it looks raggedy.

-Graedwyn

[Marius Brittanicus]

Any new ideas or pics...helping someone out with this?
Thanks

[Duane W]

When I made Bors new hat I whipped up a bunch of 14 ga. steel washers. The purpose of the washers is to provide sufficient space for a leather drape to be tucked up in to and under the back plate/cheek plates and the brow-band of the helmet. This feature is important if you want a seamless look between the bowl (top) of your helm and the leather drape.

I found that commercial washers for this application were either not thick enough or have too large a diameter to be tucked underneath the brow-band so I made them using the largest die on my whiteny punch. This is easy enough, punch a bunch or large slugs then go back and re-punch the slugs so they now have a center hole. Volia, instant spacer.

When joining up the plates with the spacers, you have to be careful with your riveting technique and hammer control. You don't want to upset the shank of the rivet so as to cause the spacer to blow-out , nor do you want to miss and pinch off the gap you are trying to create. It's an easy process to rivet correctly so this should not be much of an issue.

One other thing is to be mindful of the fact that once you do mount the plates with spacers that you will loose some interior room for padding. My notes indicate that adding 1/2" to 3/4" on the external brow-band will compensate for this. This is only important if you are making a minimum padding type helm.

As to the leather drape itself, you'll need to ask Gredwyn. I'm a 14th c. primative screw-head and only know about the care, feeding and mounting of maille ventails.

Take care,

Alexander