Laurence Hastings' Gorget/Collar

[talaananthes]

Hi all,

Was just wondering if anyone had any insight into the helmet/gorget/mail arrangement we see on Laurence Hastings, from the tomb of Hugh Hastings:

[img]http://effigiesandbrasses.com/static/monuments/original/laurence_hastings_s14_r204.jpg[/img]

It's a very interesting neck piece he's wearing there, and I've never seen anything like it before.

Thanks!

Oisin

[Galfrid atte grene]

These things were somewhat popular in the first half of the 14th century.

See also:
Thibaut de Pomollain (1330, France)
Ramon Folch (1322, Spain)

I believe they also appear in art of the period but I don't have any of those images on hand.

[talaananthes]

Very interesting! That one from 1330 looks strikingly like a protosallet.

Thanks.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Watch Henry V, some of the important French guys have them.

[talaananthes]

Watch Henry V, some of the important French guys have them.

As far as I know, Henry V is a play . . . I assume there's a specific movie version you're referring to? Do you mean th 1989 one starring Kenneth Brannagh?

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Check this topic out at MyArmoury.com

I have not seen the image that you posted of Laurence before, but if that's a literal copy of the image then the detail is pretty interesting and unique. The image of Hugh Hastings also shows a mysterious collar, and that is what was discussed in the thread mentioned above. I threw out some speculation there, but it doesn't really amount to much. The fact is that we don't have any surviving gorgets that resemble these pieces, they seem to be unique to English brasses by this decade (if not just this particular tomb!) and we have to assume just about everything about them.

I'll also note that since I wrote up my own speculation and used the references to the black color of particular parts of Hugh's ensemble, I did not realize it was a brass rather than a carving. So, the coloration of the reproductions really has no bearing on the matter.

-Gregory

Sir Hugh Hastings

[talaananthes]

From MyArmoury:

There's a reason for that.

I posted the same/similar question on both boards because there are a fair number of pretty well informed people on both, not all of whom read both, and I figured this is something likely obscure enough that it'd be worth asking both sets of people--especially because I'm asking this in light of being curious about its applicability as part of an SCA kit.

And the image I posted is actually a rubbing of one of the mourners from the brass of Sir Hugh. The whole thing is very rarely shown all together.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Well then, this all makes jolly good sense. It's funny, 1350 is just the year (within five years to either side) that I'm trying to place my new project kit. I'm still debating wildly in my head whether I want to be German or English, though... I have the German name, but I do prefer the English and the whole bit with Crecy and Poitiers being right in there! What's your plan for the rest of the kit?

I figure it's best to continue the SCA-context discussion here. Some of those folks at Myarmoury just really don't get it!

-Gregory

[talaananthes]

Yeah, I'm trying to do 1350 +5/-10 years. I'm still working on plans, but I'm shooting for mixed heritage Anglo-Irish, a vassal of the Burkes of Connaught in East Galway or Roscommon during the height of the Gaelic Resurgence. So, English armour styles and a devoted hatred of the Crown.

To be more specific, though, I'm on the list (next on the list, I hear, which is excellent!) for cuisses and the right gambeson (unfortunately my Viking age one doesn't cut it for 14th c) in linen from Ayres and Lockhart, over which I intend to continue wearing my Icefalcon riveted mail haubergeon. Early-style poleyns, leather greaves, probably splinted cuisses. Mixed plate arms . . . not really sure what exact design I want yet. I'm not sure about a CoP or not yet, I'd like to avoid it if possible.

Helm is going to be a bascinet with a found face but side swivels, similar to that seen in Andrew McKinnon's Crecy kit or several of the figures from Sir Hugh's tomb, including the one of Laurence that started this thread . . . but without the spiky visor extension thing.

The gorget in question, which to me looks like plate steel with a padded liner, at the beginning of this thread is intriguing because it potentially gives me a period way to do away with an inaccurate SCAdianism.