Anyone fight SCA in a fifteenth cent. style small plate brig

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Wed Mar 27, 2002 5:42 pm

I`m fixing to make a late fourteenth early fifteenth cent. small plate brig for SCA use. I`ll likely be using aluminum plates and leather for the textile. Before I jump into this project, I was looking for feedback from other folks already using such a rig. I`m looking to make a piece that is light, allows a great freedom and range of movement, provides decent protection, and looks good. Is this the piece I want or should I go with something else? I know I could go with a Wisby COP., but I like the lapered/tailored look of the later brigs better.
Thanks!
John

[This message has been edited by muttman (edited 03-27-2002).]

horsefriend · Post by **horsefriend** » Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:18 pm

I've done the 15th cent style with about 150 plates and I do NOT recomend leather. I used a layer of velvet over a layer of VERY heavy calico and lined it with 6+/- oz. canvas. Leather tends to make the small plate coats stiff and funky.

Alail/Scott

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:51 pm

Hi Muttman,

The "small plate" brigandines are 16th century. 15th century examples have larger plates than later examples (roughly twice the size). The plartes are still much smaller than a coat of plate.

I will only write this once more, as I am sick of writing it over the past several years. THERE IS NO LINER TO A BRIGANDINE - none, nada, zip, zilch. The plates are nailed into a canvas doublet body that has been covered with a finer cloth. There is nothing between the plates and your foundation garment.

One example in the Royal Armouries (one of the two near identical brigandines in their collection that I am basing mine off of) has a cloth shoulder doubling over the inner plates only at the shoulder - literaly where it rests on the shoulder. This is unique, I have never seen another example of this. I believe this one is made this way to allow it to be confortably worn over a civilian doublet as well as an arming doublet, if the wearer wished to. At first In thought it was an anachronisim made by the Royal Armouries on their reproduction to allow your typical tourist in a tee-shirt or light shirt to try one on, but the feature is present on the original they copied. This is not present anywhere else on this particular brigandine, nor have I seen any other example that has this feature.

The reason brigandines aren't lined is the motion of the sandwiched plates (considering their fastening) would work to take the garment apart in a hurry.

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Bob R.

horsefriend · Post by **horsefriend** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 11:49 am

Chef,

I am well aware that lining IS an anachronism, one of several on the brig I refer to, including partial machine stiching, modern buckles, untinned steel plates, and use of cotton fabric and a lining.
However, the plates DID NOT cause significant damage to the lining in more than 3 years of use, the lining was installed to keep rust off and reduce wear to the arming doublet which was a far more valuable garment in this case.
The new one, now that I know I am comfortable with the style, will have a fustian over linen cover (all handsewn), tinned steel plates, soapstone mold hand cast pewter buckles, and NO lining.
The first brig was easy to assemble (6 hours), easily passed a 3 meter inspection(something not a lot of SCA armour does), and was inexpensive and VERY practical for SCA use. The new brig is time consuming (20+ hours and it's just begun), expensive, will pass a 3 centimeter inspection (the fabric's machine woven and power tools are being used), and no nearly so practical for SCA use, which dosn't matter anymore.

Chef, do you know if there is doc for the use of horn in brigandines?

Alail/Scott
Alail/Scott

[This message has been edited by horsefriend (edited 03-28-2002).]

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Mar 28, 2002 10:54 pm

Hi Horsefriend,

I have seen no documentation for brigandines with horn plates. I have seen references in inventories to jacks "stuffed" with horn or mail, but these are different defensive garments.

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Bob R.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Fri Mar 29, 2002 12:19 pm

I made one.

I used suade with 2 inch long 1 inch wide plates along the kidneys and ribs. Uses 1 inch steel disks in the uppe body to save weight.

Based it off a burgundian doublet pattern.

Caleb from St Olaf wears it.