Pennsic 39 New Info

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

MINORS
(The following does not apply to Youth Combat systems)
If you will be age 16 – 17 this year at Pennsic you may want to sit down to read this.
Any combatant authorized in adult heavy weapons and/or adult rapier combat will be allowed to participate with adults at Pennsic War 2010 regardless of their age.
Authorizations of Minors must be performed by your Earl Marshal for Heavy Weapons and by the Kingdom Marshal of Fence for Rapier.
In addition to what is required of adults to pass inspection at Pennsic the helmets of all minors combating with adults are to be marked with a single yellow 1" diamond to be placed directly above the inspection sticker. (Yellow Duct Tape is acceptable for marking.) Minor's inspection sticker must be marked with the word "MINOR".
No one can inspect minors in camp. They must be inspected at marshal point by the senior marshal at the point.


AUTHORIZATIONS
Remember that the last day to acquire a PRIMARY authorization for Pennsic is July 24th
Remember that the last day to acquire a SECONDARY authorization for Pennsic is August 9th


WOODS BATTLE
There is a new woods battle site this year. It is north of B01, B02, & B03 on the map below
http://land.pennsicwar.org/land_php/maps/pennsic38.gif
The woods is not quite as dance as the section of fur trees in the old woods but is much more dense than the rest of the old woods. It is about a 4 - 5 degree incline with several mounds and ruts. (think ski moguls) The terrain is much harder to traverse making organized charges unlikely and line of site is greatly reduced. Scouts will likely find themselves much more useful then in past woods battles. There are some safety issues, such as 30' shear drops, which are being addressed. More on this later.


COMBAT ARCHERY
Missile blunts and APD (anti-penetration device) are allowed to have "Slight" rotation of up to 1/8 of a turn. The less rotation the better. The rumor about the "zero-twist" rule being enforced at Pennsic is untrue. Also, remember that Society policy dictates that there can be *NO* lateral movement (up and down) the fiberglass shaft. This would mean that the blunt/APD is loose (no frictional 'grip') and the *Only* thing hanging onto the blunt/APD is the tape.


PROOF OF AUTHORIZATION
While having your official laminated card is the preferable method to identify that you are an authorized participant it is not the only option. If you should lose your card, or have not received it by the time you leave for Pennsic, we offer the following options: If you have the original dated paper authorization form on hand that will be accepted as proof.
You will also need photo ID and Site token. There we can offer no help. Forget those and no inspection for you.


IN-CAMP INSPECTIONS
Minors inspect at Marshals Point by the Marshal-In-Charge of the point. No in-camp inspections for minors, NO EXCEPTIONS.
The Kingdom Earl Marshal's & the Society Earl Marshal will be allowed to do "in-Camp" inspections for adult heavy combatants.


MERCHANTS CLOSE EARLY!
Friday the 13th at 11:00 pm the merchants close this year. THERE WILL BE NO MERCHANTING ON SATURDAY THE 14th OR ON SUNDAY THE 15TH. NO EXCEPTIONS.

[freiman the minstrel]

Sir Tristan,

Where exactly is the new woods battle site? I have heard that is down by the old causeway, and I have also heard that it is on the hill above the castle.

f

[William de Faleston]

Wheee! 30 foot drops!

If the location is as Sir Tristan describes (just north of B01, 2 and 3,) then that's some interesting terrain. It's essentially just west of the Roman numerals on the Mt. Eislinn.

If you get a chance, check that area out on Google Earth. The terrain is very interesting.

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

Look at the map at this address:
http://land.pennsicwar.org/land_php/maps/pennsic38.gif

Look at the brown shaded area north of B01, B02, & B03

That is the woods.

I know this is the Pennsic 38 map but that area is the same.

It is the brown shaded area to the left of the one with the words "Mount Eislinn"

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

Wheee! 30 foot drops!

Well to be fair only the first 20' are a shear drop the last 10' is about a 45 degree angle.



If you use google Earth to look at it click on the button that says "Earth" in the upper right corner to get a 3-d view of the terrain.

[Larmer]

What is the source for all of this information especially the fighting info?

I have heard some of this information elsewhere but could not confirm some of it at the Pennsic site. I am not meaning to question your honesty just covering my butt before I tell my people.

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

From Padrig, EK Earl Marshal.
(Marshal in Charge of Pennsic this Year)

Any rulings/decisions not published on the Pennsic Site are of course subject to change, but this is what the three of us have agreed upon so far.

(by three of us I mean Padrig (EK Earl Marshal), Edmund (Mid Earl Marshal), and me (AE Earl Marshal)

[Larmer]

From Padrig, EK Earl Marshal.
(Marshal in Charge of Pennsic this Year)

Any rulings/decisions not published on the Pennsic Site are of course subject to change, but this is what the three of us have agreed upon so far.

(by three of us I mean Padrig (EK Earl Marshal), Edmund (Mid Earl Marshal), and me (AE Earl Marshal)

Excellent thank-you.

[olaf haraldson]

Wheee! 30 foot drops!

Well to be fair only the first 20' are a shear drop the last 10' is about a 45 degree angle.

Yeah... into the camp behind mine, if it's the drop I'm thinking of...

[Valstarr Hawkwind]

So, are 'drop-ins' welcome in your camp?

[William de Faleston]

It would beat having to walk all the way back to camp. Just roll down the embankment!

[freiman the minstrel]

From Padrig, EK Earl Marshal.
(Marshal in Charge of Pennsic this Year)

Any rulings/decisions not published on the Pennsic Site are of course subject to change, but this is what the three of us have agreed upon so far.

(by three of us I mean Padrig (EK Earl Marshal), Edmund (Mid Earl Marshal), and me (AE Earl Marshal)

That would explain why Padrig hasn't been posting much to the archive lately.

f

[Euric Germanicus]

Whoo! Glad to hear Padrig is MIC.

[Geoffrey of Blesedale]

MERCHANTS CLOSE EARLY!
Friday the 13th at 11:00 pm the merchants close this year. THERE WILL BE NO MERCHANTING ON SATURDAY THE 14th OR ON SUNDAY THE 15TH. NO EXCEPTIONS.

Does that apply to food as well? Might make packing difficult when you need to cook your meals as well.

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

Corrections to the "last day to authorize" have been made to the first post.
Primary auths until the 24th secondary until the 9th.

Food Merchants are a special beast. In the past Food merchants have been allowed to stay open until they run out of food. I doubt that will change this year.

[Aaron]

Sir Tristen Sexwulf,

That was the most well written event information flyer I've ever seen. It's very easy to read and quickly gets the message across.

Well done!

[olaf haraldson]

Here's a view of the woods site from Google Earth as seen from from Mount Eislenn...
[img]http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg22 ... /Woods.jpg[/img][/img]

[Steve S.]

So I wonder what's up with the new merchant rules?

Steve

[Uillec]

I just heard the rule change that 16-17 year old's being able to fight with adults at Pennsic this year DOES NOT apply to youths from the Middle Kingdom. Could someone please address this.
I really had my hopes up that my son who has been fighting for going on 6 years, turns 17 in 3 days, and is bigger that most of the adult fighters in our group at 6 ft 4 in 248 lbs would be able to do some real fighting this year.
I guess he will have to wait until next year.

Uillec

[Thorvald Weretiger]

I just heard the rule change that 16-17 year old's being able to fight with adults at Pennsic this year DOES NOT apply to youths from the Middle Kingdom. Could someone please address this.
I really had my hopes up that my son who has been fighting for going on 6 years, turns 17 in 3 days, and is bigger that most of the adult fighters in our group at 6 ft 4 in 248 lbs would be able to do some real fighting this year.
I guess he will have to wait until next year.

Uillec

Dang it, and I wanted to hit him with a stick. Guess ill have to get it in on sunday when i see yall

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

I just heard the rule change that 16-17 year old's being able to fight with adults at Pennsic this year DOES NOT apply to youths from the Middle Kingdom. Could someone please address this.
I really had my hopes up that my son who has been fighting for going on 6 years, turns 17 in 3 days, and is bigger that most of the adult fighters in our group at 6 ft 4 in 248 lbs would be able to do some real fighting this year.
I guess he will have to wait until next year.

Uillec

It is not that Pennsic is saying no minors from the middle. Pennsic is just saying no unauthorized fighters period.

Here are the sequence of events:
- Anyone authorized may fight at Pennsic.
- Society Policy states that you must authorize by Kingdom of residence and according to your Kingdoms rules.
- As of today the Middle is the only Kingdom left that does not allow minors to authorize Adult Heavy or Adult Rapier. minimum age of 18
- As Middle Kingdom minors cannot authorize they will not have authorization cards which are required to fight at Pennsic.

If you are unhappy about this then it is a conversation you need to have with your Earl Marshal and/or Crown.

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

There have been complaints & questions flying in all the wrong directions. To the Society Marshal, To Crowns, To the Mayor of Pennsic, etc.

Let me address a few of the questions and concerns:
Minor Markings at Pennsic:
The Yellow Diamond is an East Kingdom requirement. The marking of inspection stickers is an AEthelmearc requirement.
We are doing both at Pennsic to satisfy both Kingdom requirements. The Middle doesn't allow minors on the field so they seem fine with whatever markings Padrig and I agreed upon.
Padrig, Edmund, & I (all the earl marshals of Pennsic) have set this policy. Complain all they want this is what every (non-middle kingdom) war allows and this is what will happen this year.

Fear of Chucks:
Some say "But the Chucks will kill them!!"
The Chucks, or anyone, deliberately tries to injure a fighter (minor or otherwise) and I will send them home with arrangements for them to find another club to play in. (PS: There were minors on the field at AEthelmearc War Practice and the Chuks were no more successful at injuring them then they were at injuring anyone else.)

Fear of Change:
I am sure this will get some alarmists panties in a twist. Minors haven't been allowed on the list at pennsic for almost 2 decades so this is sure to ruffle some feathers.
Once people realize that these are not typical 16 & 17 year olds but minors who have passed a rigorous authorization process they usually calm down. As to complaints, I will to field any calls about minors. Give them my cell number below and eMail.

Padrig is rather busy so send them my way to cut him a break.

Cell (304) 549-6214 (10 am - 10 pm eastern time)

[Uillec]

I am aware of the Middle Kingdom rules governing youth fighting, but not other kingdoms. The original post did not point out that each kingdoms rules covering youth would override this exception. I have spoken to crown and youth marshals about this in the past. Now that you have explained things further I understand and accept it.

Uillec

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

The site rules do not override kingdom rules or vice versa in this case. To put it simple. If you are authorized you can fight at Pennsic. Society policy is such that you cannot fight at events when you are not authorized.
The only pennsic policy that affects fighters in this case is the deadlines to authorize. Last day to authorize is July 25 for primary and August 9th for secondary.

Ps. Sorry if that last message was bitchy or condecending. I did not intend that tone when composing it but after rereading it I fear I may have given that impression.

[William de Faleston]

As a high school teacher writing this at the end of the school year, I would like to heartily endorse the idea of me being able to hit 16-17-year-olds with sticks.

[Vladimir]

As a high school teacher writing this at the end of the school year, I would like to heartily endorse the idea of me being able to hit 16-17-year-olds with sticks.

As a former high school teacher myself, this would have been a dream come true.

Funny thing is my students were supposed to be 14-15, most were 16-17. I had one that was almost 20.

[sha-ul]

As a high school teacher writing this at the end of the school year, I would like to heartily endorse the idea of me being able to hit 16-17-year-olds with sticks.

Bwahahahahahahaha

[Oscad]

William..... I taught HS for about 10 years.

As a 'reward' for the students. (to get them to be good) I would bring in some boffer swords. I would also put them in a fencing mask and a hockey glove...just in case.

Then they could fight with me.

They thought it was great, they actually got the chance to beat up a teacher. They were completely excited about the prospect of hitting me.
They never quite caught on that for everytime a student actually hit me, I got to hit them 15-20 times.

Talk about a great stress relief.

[Ewen MacSuibhne]

MERCHANTS CLOSE EARLY!
Friday the 13th at 11:00 pm the merchants close this year. THERE WILL BE NO MERCHANTING ON SATURDAY THE 14th OR ON SUNDAY THE 15TH. NO EXCEPTIONS.

But Friday is when I get blind stinking drunk, and Saturday is when I get the best deals!

Merchants look out for me trying to haggle with you on Friday night, three sheets to the wind.

[St. George]

It is not that Pennsic is saying no minors from the middle. Pennsic is just saying no unauthorized fighters period.

Here are the sequence of events:
- Anyone authorized may fight at Pennsic.
- Society Policy states that you must authorize by Kingdom of residence and according to your Kingdoms rules.
- As of today the Middle is the only Kingdom left that does not allow minors to authorize Adult Heavy or Adult Rapier. minimum age of 18
- As Middle Kingdom minors cannot authorize they will not have authorization cards which are required to fight at Pennsic.

If you are unhappy about this then it is a conversation you need to have with your Earl Marshal and/or Crown.

Ok- say that for someone is not currently authorized, and shows up at Pennsic. Does this mean that they are not allowed to fight at all- including pick ups and instruction, or that I am not allowed to fight in battles, tournies, etc?

I had always been under the impression that instruction and practice was always allowed at SCA events for people who were not authorized.

g-

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

Ok- say that for someone is not currently authorized, and shows up at Pennsic. Does this mean that they are not allowed to fight at all- including pick ups and instruction, or that I am not allowed to fight in battles, tournies, etc?

I had always been under the impression that instruction and practice was always allowed at SCA events for people who were not authorized.

g-

True that this "training" is relatively common at events. However, at Pennsic No Unauthorized person may participate in Combat Related Activities. This includes Heavy, Rapier, Siege, etc.

Let me break it down this way. To fight at Pennsic you must first have your armor inspected. To have your armor inspected you are required to present your authorization card. No authorize card means no armor inspection. No armor inspection means no combat related activities.

Off the List field, after the list field has closed, or before it opens there are often classes, pell work, "out of armor" instruction, etc. These are considered A&S and/or demonstration and do not fall under the marshal umbrella as combat related activities.
This is all that is open to unauthorized people at Pennsic.

I spoke with the Society Earl Marshal on this and that is the way he explained it.

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

The last day to acquire your secondary authorization has been extended to August 9th.

Here is the final draft of what has been submitted to go into the Pennsic Book:

-------------------------------------------------
Authorizations
All fighters who wish to participate in the battles at Pennsic 39 must have a primary authorization by the last week prior to the beginning of Land-grab weekend, which this year is July 24. Secondary authorizations must occur by August 9.

All Minors (16 and 17 year olds) who hold Authorization cards in their Kingdom, who wish to fight at Pennsic War 39, must present themselves and their credentials, along with their Parent(s)/Legal guardian(s) for Armor Inspection. Minors may only be inspected at Marshal's Point and only by the Senior Marshal in charge of Marshal's Point. Parents MUST be present at time of Inspection. No one can inspect minors in camp.

Minors must mark their helms/Fencing Mask with four 2" x 2" Yellow Diamonds (Duct Tape is acceptable for marking) one on each side of helm.
Minor's inspection sticker must be marked with the word "MINOR"

Kingdoms wishing to authorize fighters in secondary authorizations must have a marshal present at the marshal's point, with the required paperwork for their Kingdom. Qualification bouts will be fought on the list just in front of the marshals tent and during posted inspection hours only. All Fighters, Combat Archers, and Siege Engineers must have their authorization cards with them at Pennsic. No card, no participation, no exceptions!!!
-------------------------------------------------

[Steve S.]

Sir Tristen: it sure looks like you have all the details nailed down by heart. Thanks for all your hard work.

Steve

[AndrescalledAJ]

For middle fighters I would almost think 16-17 year olds could get auths the same way my lady got her epee auth, by going to WV one weekend and asking to be authorized.

[Sir Tristen Sexwulf]

For middle fighters I would almost think 16-17 year olds could get auths the same way my lady got her epee auth, by going to WV one weekend and asking to be authorized.

RULE #1 UNDER AUTHORIZATION REQUIREMENTS IN THE MARSHAL'S HANDBOOK:

All persons who wish to participate in SCA combat activities must authorize under the Society and Kingdom-of-residence authorization procedures.

You cannot authorize by other Kingdom's standards. Authorizations must be performed by marshals from your home kingdom in accordance with your Kingdom of Residence's standards.