battle of the nations experiment

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:55 pm

So my friend Sir Gunther Kegslayer and I got together in a parking lot and scrapped. He used my rebated steel bastard sword and I used rattan (because he doesn't really wear much armour).

We fought full force, full contact. Using the rules for the battle of the nations, as I currently understand them.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:03 pm

We were hitting as hard as we could. Very exciting. The only thing that ended up hurting was my chinstrap attachment point got driven into my cheekbone by a pommel strike. I need to work on that.

Wre we hitting hard? Well we broke my stell sword. The guard got broke from blocking guard on guard. The hilt got bent bythe force o the shots Gunther wasthrowing . I sheared a stainless stee rivit in my gauntlets by repeatedly punching Gunther in the head.

But guess what? No one got really hurt.

Armour works.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 5:05 pm

Aftermath.

I need to get some better swords. Maybe also a tempered spring visor.

Violen · Post by **Violen** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 6:11 pm

Start a thread someplace appropriate about the construction of the belt?

Teach us Newbs?

Chris G. · Post by **Chris G.** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:01 pm

Violen, look here

DukeAvery · Post by **DukeAvery** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 7:58 pm

You guys are truly crazed - allow me to express my admiration. :!:

Once what works best is figured out, I do have some interest in getting a similarly protective suit. I noticed most of the BoN guys seem to be wearing more mail around the lower bicept than you seem to have.

What weight is your suit? What is that a mild steel visor? The damage is suggestive of what I've seen from failing AL against repeated rattan strikes, but maybe it is just the strong light/lcd etc.

It seems this will be an armory intensive sport, so repair arrangements will be necessary. Any armor cost projects you may put together are also of interest to me.

Regards

Avery

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 9:44 pm

Thank you.
I have talked to some of these guys. They do not practice with steel. They use fiberglass covered steel for practice and save the steel for real events. Saves on armour wear and tear.

I wanted to do this extreme test early though, before getting too far along in order to check what a worst case scenario felt like. Its not that bad.

The shots I took to my hip which is just chain and gambeson smarted, but I didn't even get a bruise. My biceps have a gambeson, then a full plate rerebrace and then the sleeve of my chain hueberk over it.

The whole gettup weighs about 65 pounds. (five less than my SCA kit) As much as possible is mild or spring, Stainless is a no-no for BoN.

I am not sure what you mean by armour costs projects. Are you asking what this suit cost to put together?

DukeAvery · Post by **DukeAvery** » Sat Oct 16, 2010 11:48 pm

Nissan Maxima wrote:I have talked to some of these guys. They do not practice with steel. They use fiberglass covered steel for practice and save the steel for real events. Saves on armour wear and tear.

Good to know, that makes sense.

Nissan Maxima wrote:... Are you asking what this suit cost to put together?

Yes, for all the plate, gauntlets excepted. It looks like your taking your Grettrs.

But, also serious on site armor repairs seem unavoidable per your test, so that, plus tentage, portage, provender on site, etc would be things to consider as well. I'm trying to ballpark the costs (as mostly a thought experiment at this point).

Also, do we know what specific kinds of mail are allowed/best? What you going with? Welded seems best but I've not yet gone in for mail (I took a big pass on butted back in the day).

Thanks again for sharing your results.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:04 am

Ice Falcon 6 mm blackened rivited Hauberk 800 ish
Ice Falcon 9 mm blackend rivited chausses 400 ish
Windrose Helmet with stainless aventail (which I will probably have to replace with a rivited blackened job) 900 ish
Halberds sabatons 300 ish
Mystery internet cased greaves 300 ish
Used mercenary Tailor arms and legs 300 ish
Windrose breastplate 200 ish
Mystery internet pauldrons 100 ish
Ice Falcon gambeson 100 ish

mrks · Post by **mrks** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:09 am

damn nissan you are an inspiration.

I have wanted to do this for as long as I have been fighting.
my armouring skill is now worthy of the task so maybe I will start myself a rebated suit this winter.

thanks for sharing and being inspiring.

mrks

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:02 am

Nissan Maxima wrote:But guess what? No one got really hurt.

Armour works.

Welcome to our world.

Now add thrusting, grappling & dagger so you can fight to submission. There is more to it than just banging each other like the Russian and Ukrainian guys do.

Kel Rekuta
Academy of European Medieval Martial Arts
www.aemma.org

The Iron Dwarf · Post by **The Iron Dwarf** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:14 am

Nissan Maxima wrote:But guess what? No one got really hurt.

Armour works.

well it has been tried and tested for a few ( thousand ) years so by now it should work quite well :wink:

Lucian Ro · Post by **Lucian Ro** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:41 am

I've been MIA from the AA for the past few weeks due to personal issues so to come back to this thread makes my heart happy.

So I'm assuming Grettr's gauntlets passed with flying colors?

Where'd you pick up the sword? Was it one of the ones that Icefalcon was thinking of selling?

As for the fiberglass-covered swords, did you get an idea of how to do that?

What (if any) SCA shots were effective in this kind of fight?

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:06 am

Wow, that's an impressive amount of violence. The blade of your metal sword still looks good from the pics, maybe you can just replace the guard with something better? Though having an extra sword might not be a bad idea if that's a similar amount of violence as the real event.

Ron Broberg · Post by **Ron Broberg** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:49 am

Some day the Battle of Thirty will be fought with steel.

Meanwhile ... we have Daimler/Nissan.

Any plans to fight with poleaxe?

---------

I just took my eyes off of Nissan and noticed that his friend, Sir Gunther Kegslayer, does not seem as well armored. How did he fare?

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:10 am

Ron Broberg wrote:I just took my eyes off of Nissan and noticed that his friend, Sir Gunther Kegslayer, does not seem as well armored. How did he fare?

I was using rattan so gunther just got the normal SCA clubbing. The only shot that hurt him all day was a punch to the body when I forgot he was not dressed for that.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:11 am

AwP wrote:Wow, that's an impressive amount of violence. The blade of your metal sword still looks good from the pics, maybe you can just replace the guard with something better? Though having an extra sword might not be a bad idea if that's a similar amount of violence as the real event.

This is a sword I got from Ic Falcon. trashed it in one day. The hilt is bent in two axis and is now junk. I need better swords.

Lots of SCA shots hit. For the counted blow singles fights they are very useful. None are particularly effective at giving any pause to an armoured oponent. Pommel strikes and punches are effective.

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:42 am

Looks like you had some serious fun!

DukeAvery · Post by **DukeAvery** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:43 pm

Very reasonable, thanks.

Given how metal can fragment, I'd want perforated steel over my eyes as well. Do we know if that is cool with the organizers?

Nissan Maxima wrote:Ice Falcon 6 mm blackened rivited Hauberk 800 ish
Ice Falcon 9 mm blackend rivited chausses 400 ish
Windrose Helmet with stainless aventail (which I will probably have to replace with a rivited blackened job) 900 ish
Halberds sabatons 300 ish
Mystery internet cased greaves 300 ish
Used mercenary Tailor arms and legs 300 ish
Windrose breastplate 200 ish
Mystery internet pauldrons 100 ish
Ice Falcon gambeson 100 ish

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:48 pm

I dont know. But I am going to wear polycarbonate sports goggles.

Wulfgar · Post by **Wulfgar** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 6:50 pm

Looks cool. Some form of eye protection is probably a very good idea, I think I'd still try and get some perf welded inside the occular and paint it black, you won't see it and your eye slots are large enough that you vision should still be reasonable.

freiman the minstrel · Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:07 pm

I can ask around about rebated swords in Europe, if you want.

I want to play too, but I sure as hell aint taking my hands into that mess.

So, what can I do?

Still have the line on the medics, by the way. You can import them from the states, or I can ask local folks. You haven't said anything.

f

Tyr Palenske · Post by **Tyr Palenske** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:11 pm

Afterwards did you have a silly grin for no apparent reason that lasted for hours?

chris19d · Post by **chris19d** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:14 pm

I'd suggest paul binns, the group I do rebated steel with uses his blades almost exclusively.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:10 pm

freiman the minstrel wrote:I can ask around about rebated swords in Europe, if you want.

I want to play too, but I sure as hell aint taking my hands into that mess.

So, what can I do?

Still have the line on the medics, by the way. You can import them from the states, or I can ask local folks. You haven't said anything.

f

If you and some body who knows their way around a medical emergency wanna come with me for a relaxing vacation in scenic Ukraine that would be grand to have the company. Learn some Ukrainian drinking songs and we can make some friends among the locals, after we have smashed each other.

Duke Icefalcon · Post by **Duke Icefalcon** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:18 am

Nissan Maxima wrote:
AwP wrote:Wow, that's an impressive amount of violence. The blade of your metal sword still looks good from the pics, maybe you can just replace the guard with something better? Though having an extra sword might not be a bad idea if that's a similar amount of violence as the real event.

This is a sword I got from Ic Falcon. trashed it in one day. The hilt is bent in two axis and is now junk. I need better swords.

Lots of SCA shots hit. For the counted blow singles fights they are very useful. None are particularly effective at giving any pause to an armoured oponent. Pommel strikes and punches are effective.

Nissan,

I am sorry the sword did not last longer. I will be happy to give you store credit for the sword if you like.

Cheers!

Ice

Luca Sogliano · Post by **Luca Sogliano** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:48 am

Nissan,

Did you consider trying any of the half-swording techniques, either in your native German style, or my preferred Italian? All the period texts suggest that it's the way to go against a fully armored opponent.

Armand d'Alsace · Post by **Armand d'Alsace** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:53 am

Well done!
It seems like a lot of fun, and that armour does indeed work.

I really want to go myself, but before 2012, it seems unlikely.

Horace · Post by **Horace** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:08 am

Nissan,

This is so cool!

How would you say this felt in relation to baton combat?

I wish I could talk a few guys into do this here!

-H

Bran ap Rees · Post by **Bran ap Rees** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:28 am

H - I'm in.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:18 am

Horace wrote:Nissan,

This is so cool!

How would you say this felt in relation to baton combat?

I wish I could talk a few guys into do this here!

-H

The sword blows felt exactly the same as baton combat. The punches and pommel strikes felt waaay harder than baton combat.

Without the right armour it would feel like a trip to the emergency room or the morgue.

We didn't do half swording because thats all about stabbing (for the most part) and thats against the BoN ruleset.

Natavia · Post by **Natavia** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:43 am

Horace wrote:Nissan,

This is so cool!

How would you say this felt in relation to baton combat?

I wish I could talk a few guys into do this here!

-H

Horace,

Ivan would do it in an instant.

Greenshield · Post by **Greenshield** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:33 pm

Nissan, you bringing that BoN kit to Gulf Wars? I'll practice with you.

GreenShield

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 4:37 pm

Greenshield wrote:Nissan, you bringing that BoN kit to Gulf Wars? I'll practice with you.

GreenShield

Awesome, man.
Yep, I am. We will have to go offsite to fight full speed full contact with steel, or we will both get kicked out of the SCA. We can do it in my hotel parking lot. :twisted:

Tally · Post by **Tally** » Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:04 pm

Awesome!