Want to give up

[Aaryq]

Trying to get together an SCA legal kit is overwhelming at times and with all that's involved in starting out, I'm mulling over cutting my losses and walking away. At first my plans were to spend this past summer through this winter to build up my kit and be ready to take the field in spring. It's November and for one reason after another, I've got nothing done but a half-done Wisby Coat. I really want to fight but I don't have the bread to buy the kit (save the helm), and I'm starting to doubt how much time I'll really be able to devote to the finding of affordable yet acceptable materials and construction of the armour. I've got a few people with loaner kit and everything and armour building experience but I just feel too much like a burden having to rely on them and borrow their armour to take the field...
If only the barter system replaced money...I'd be all sorts of set up.
When you guys were starting out, did this happen to you? How did you get over being overwhelmed?

[Maeryk]

What do you need to complete your kit?

[Aaryq]

Everything...which is why it's so overwhelming.

[Ingvarr]

First off, if you've had people offer to help you or loan you armor, it's because they want to do it. Don't avoid it because you think that you're being a burden. Second, are you sure the barter system wouldn't work? Send an email out to your local/kingdom lists saying I need A, B, & C and have or can do X, Y, & Z. Would anybody be interested in barter? You might well get takers.

[Iohn deMar]

Some people will accept barter trades if you ask.

Bring it up to those people with the experience near you and you might be surprised.

[Maeryk]

Everything...which is why it's so overwhelming.

How big are your knees? Are you a large person, or somewhat chicken legged?

[losthelm]

It sounds like you need a metor or some sort of guidance to build your kit and network with some of the local talent.

[Matthew Amt]

Borrow the gear! If people are offering, it's because they like to have more people to play with, and they don't want a new person to give up in despair. Heck, if they're like me, they're probably hauling all kinds of spares to events anyway, "just in case", so borrowing from them will make it worthwhile for them schlep all that stuff.

Plus using other people's gear will give you all kinds of insights on how to do your own, and may change a few of your ideas of what you want. Better to find out now! It's free experience, without waiting for it.

I've never done SCA, but I can tell you it's exactly the same in other reenactment groups. I've got ALL THIS STUFF, and it's nice to see it get used. Borrow it, and get into the game!! Just give it back reasonably clean.

Have fun!

Matthew

[Aaryq]

Everything...which is why it's so overwhelming.

How big are your knees? Are you a large person, or somewhat chicken legged?

I've been told I'm a lot smaller than most fighters. I'm 5'9" and 165lbs. I wouldn't quite say chicken legs, but I did place a borrowed elbow cop from a friend and placed on my knee and it dar near fit perfectly.

[Tomburr]

You could always raid a couple of thrift stores for their cheap used sports gear and/or chop up a plastic barrel for armour plates and cover it all with a monk's robe or some baggy garb. It'll get you on the field without looking awful, while you continue to slowly assemble the kit you want to end up with.

[somedudeinutah]

Making armour is always more fun and way faster if you do it with a friend. Hell, I have enough half finished projects around my shop to outfit somebody if they just wanted to show up and spend a day finishing them... WITH my very willing help. Is there anybody who armours where you are?

[Aaryq]

Yes. We do have one...you know, not like a pro or anything, but pretty good stuff (saw him make a rough elbow (kind of like rough from the hammer stuff) in about 10 mins or so.

[Cian of Storvik]

Don't get discouraged. It might be the reality that you just need to set the idea aside right now. The likely scenario is that you could stress and burn yourself out pushing the boulder up the hill like Sisyphus.

I'm not sure what the fighting situation is where you live but generally speaking the best option is to get with the local group and see what they can provide as loaner armor suit. And then work on your own kit while using the loaner stuff. Once you are fighting practices, you will be more motivated to work on your stuff (for comfort or appearance), and you will probably acquire bits and pieces from benefactors (fellow fighters) wanting to help out an eager comrade.

Like any hobby it takes a certain amount of money and time investement. It's easy to have the motivation or desire to be part of something. The money and time are the tricky part. If you have enough money you can buy everything and then only have to show up for practices (if you're rich, you can have multiple suits and never really have to worry about time dedicated to maintenance in fact). Conversely, if you have all the time in the world, and just a little money you can study and make yourself a suit of armor head to toe for probably a week's wages.
The reality is that most of us work (and Americans have more working hours than almost any industrialized nation. On averge; 10 govt. holidays and 10 vacation days that most of us don't even get the opportunity to use. Not counting the weekends you put in, the over-time and the holidays you miss. "Sorry darling! This year I promise we'll have a Christmas!") and so time available is at a minimum, so we have to surplant it with the money part of the equation.

In my experience there is a large spectrum of how long it takes someone to come up with their own armor. I've seen people dump a ton of money on a start-up kit, and be at fighter practice in all of their own armor 2 weeks after they found out about the SCA. And I know guys that are still cobbeling bits and pieces together a year later (parts of their own kit mostly hand-me-downs and loaner armor bits.) And that is with considerable support from others.

You just need to be realistic about your expectations. Swollow some pride. Ask around locally for help. Attack the kit one piece at a time. But realize that many of us have given armor to people with their promise that "I'll show up to practice!" only to never see that sallet or leg harness ever again. And so you have to prove your dedication by showing up to practices and possibly training for weeks or months without any armor before anyone is likely to give you anything.

-Cian

[Ckanite]

My biggest problem is making everything. I've been slowly building up my kit and the skill sets nessassary to make my kit for the past 6 years. and it'll probally be another 6 untill I get it all done enough to get on the field. Borrow what you can and just keep sloggong it out. It's supposed to take some time to get this stuff together, else wise you would have a million other people who would be on the fields. So don't give up!~!

[Swete]

Making armour is always more fun and way faster if you do it with a friend. Hell, I have enough half finished projects around my shop to outfit somebody if they just wanted to show up and spend a day finishing them... WITH my very willing help. Is there anybody who armours where you are?

+1 to this.
Me and my friend made our first armour (char-ana's, gorgets, cuisses, and shields) over teh course of a week. It was a blast, and any time one of us had trouble, the other helped. A real bonding experience.

[Adeliz]

Focus on one thing at a time.

For example... you don't need EVERYTHING right now.

Borrow bits and pieces from other folks and say... "Ok, I'm going to make my own elbows first." Make the elbows and give the loaned ones back. "Ok, now I'm going to make my own knees." Then give the loaners back.

"You don't have to say "I'm going to make my KIT now"... just finish one piece before moving on to the next.

[shinyhalo]

Trying to get together an SCA legal kit is overwhelming at times and with all that's involved in starting out, I'm mulling over cutting my losses and walking away. ?

I too have had a miserably difficult time. I have a "kit" but it:
1. Lacks protection in some dangerous areas
2. Causes back strain
3. Knees flop around or slide down
4. Hot as hell in Florida summer
5. Soaks up sweat and becomes heavy
6. Helm only turns 10 degrees in either direction
7....

Anyway, we are not alone. I've seen armor factories put a lot of work into fielding new people and then they just give up.
I attribute it mostly to inferior kits making it not fun and unbearably hot, but it's also a combination of factors, the LEAST of which is lack of interest.

Again, the SCA leadership should poll veteran fighters and put out youtube video tutorials on making low-cost + highly comfortable + good looking + protective armor. These traits are the most common reasons I've seen newbs drop out.

Right now there isn't enough volunteer talent to supply the demand for good home made armor so the SCA org needs to step up.

[Steve S.]

Your best bet is to hook up with some local people in your SCA group and see if they can help you make what you need.

You are not far from Charlotte, I would assume there would be lots of SCA people in such a large city.

Steve

[losthelm]

There is more then euff tallent on the board.
Its just a matter of networking with the local tallent and people useing the resources available.
Look at the pattern area and essay section or search some of the how to webpages for armour.

wikihow instructables youtube

http://home.messiah.edu/~gdaub/armor/picgloss.htm
http://www.brighthelm.org/articles/armour
http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html

A number of other patterns can be adapted for sca armour.

Even if they are just hiting each other with cardboard wraping paper tubes or makeing convention costumes.

[Swete]

Here is a very helpful vid on how to make vambraces, knees and cuisses out of barrel. As long as you cover it, it will be awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7nBMezkJgQ

[schreiber]

I'm 5'9" and 165lbs. I wouldn't quite say chicken legs, but I did place a borrowed elbow cop from a friend and placed on my knee and it dar near fit perfectly.

You are not alone. I was 5'10", 150lbs when I started fighting. I have lots of similarly sized friends.
People of our stature are not spending all our time on the field. I think it's a combination of two things: first, that there are a lot of much bigger guys who don't know how to tone it the fuck down, and second, because there is usually a greater proportion of our bodies that will ruin our week if it gets hit with a stick. This puts quite a fine point on the need for better-than-average armor.

If you go to WalMart and try to buy jeans, it becomes clear very quickly which body type buys the most clothes. We are in the majority, yet we can't get a lot of off-the-peg armor that fits us.

If only the barter system replaced money...I'd be all sorts of set up.

PM me and let me know what you have to barter. I'm always looking for barters, and since I make stuff that fits me and all my me-sized friends, I also make stuff that fits you.

Alternately, in Atlantia cut-and-thrust is gaining popularity. I have yet to get into it myself, but all my me-sized friends tell me that it's basically heavy fighting for us little guys.

[schreiber]

I'm 5'9" and 165lbs. I wouldn't quite say chicken legs, but I did place a borrowed elbow cop from a friend and placed on my knee and it dar near fit perfectly.

You are not alone. I was 5'10", 150lbs when I started fighting. I have lots of similarly sized friends.
People of our stature are not spending all our time on the field. I think it's a combination of two things: first, that there are a lot of much bigger guys who don't know how to tone it the fuck down, and second, because there is usually a greater proportion of our bodies that will ruin our week if it gets hit with a stick. This puts quite a fine point on the need for better-than-average armor.

If you go to WalMart and try to buy jeans, it becomes clear very quickly which body type buys the most clothes. We are in the majority, yet we can't get a lot of off-the-peg armor that fits us.

If only the barter system replaced money...I'd be all sorts of set up.

PM me and let me know what you have to barter. I'm always looking for barters, and since I make stuff that fits me and all my me-sized friends, I also make stuff that fits you.

Alternately, in Atlantia cut-and-thrust is gaining popularity. I have yet to get into it myself, but all my me-sized friends tell me that it's basically heavy fighting for us little guys, and the armor requirements aren't as stringent.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

This subculture is NOT for quitters. Simply refuse to stop.

[Vladimir]

BORROW THE GEAR!

I know it has been said before, but it bears repeating. Hardly anyone starts off in their own gear. Borrow their stuff and make use of the help they are offering.

You don't know how much time you will have to participate? That makes things even easier. It means you will have time to save money to buy the gear or to make it yourself.

Seriously, if you are even modestly skilled with basic tools then the only pieces of armour you should have to buy are elbows, knees, and a helmet. With little more than a saw and a hammer you should be able to make a fairly "periodish" (in rough appearance) kit without an issue.

If you are a bit more skilled, or have better tools you can make something nicer or more period appropriate.

Don't be afraid to buy a used piece. My first helmet only cost me $30. It was a tank of a helmet and is probably still out there somewhere.

Acquiring your own armour isn't difficult, it just requires people to get out of an "instant gratification" mindset.

[arg]

re-evaluate your expectations.

What is more important to you:

1. fighting

2. Looking decent while fighting.

3. Looking great (while fighting).

if #1, downgrade what you are trying to do. Ignore the trolls and get a cheap set of sport based armour. Use the ungodly pickle barrel. It is more important at this stage to fight and build your skillset. Beg, borrow, do whatever you have to do, but fight! First get a stick and a pell (learn your weapon), then a helm (wear while doing the pell). go from there. above all, swing that stick!!

If # 2, start using the folks that have indicated they are willing to help. There are cheap alternatives out there. A well done jupon can hide a lot of cheap plastic armour. Ask and ye shall recieve, and lots of guys with shops hate sweeping said shops. I'd build you stuff if you cleaned out my shop...

If # 3, you are more concerned with how you look over how good you could be. worry less about fighting, its not a priority anyways, and after a few guys in picklebarrel hand you a whupping in your 14th C mafia worthy kit, likely it wont be. Just calling it how i've seen it play out over 13 years of new guys coming through with varying levels of $, skill and drive. Be honest with yourself. Looking good doesnt mean being good, but oddly enough, highly skilled fighters always seem to look good (to a degree...).

remember the triangle GOOD > CHEAP > FAST. you get two out of the three...

And consider that " Man, that guy kicks ass" is a world apart from " Man, that guy's kit kicks ass".

[Johann Lederer]

I like the advise everyone is giving here.
My advise is two fold:
You can eat a whole elephant, you just have to do it one small piece at a time. So, do what you can with the time you have and move from there. If you get something hard that you don;t know where to go, ask both here and locally. Be patient.

The other part is that loaner gear is supposed to be loaned and used. So do not feel as if you are imposing. When we get new people in our shire, I help them make a gorget, I give them a new rattan sword and help them make a sword basket. From there, they can learn and have personal gear that we are in short supply of.
After that I help them get their persona or time period nailed down, and then we work on a shield, body armor, arms and legs. They are encouraged to buy a helmet as I am not proficient in making them.
This has worked for at least 5 people thus far....

[Steve S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgdhTnNB ... r_embedded

[shinyhalo]

wikihow instructables youtube

No links = no help

http://home.messiah.edu/~gdaub/armor/picgloss.htm

This is just a glossary of terms.

http://www.brighthelm.org/articles/armour

This pdf is about as good as a text document can be. Still, this textbook wasn't enough to get me in a kit that was satisfactory. I should define satisfactory as I am using it:
1. 8 out of 10 in functionality/comfort (no range of motion blockage, no joint trauma, not overly cumbersome, not prone to overheating in Florida)
2. 5 out of 10 in appearance (average is blending in)
3. 8 out of 10 in cost (plastic or aluminum)
4. 8 out of 10 in ease of manufacture (most people can do it after SEEING it being made)

I don't think that's too much to ask for such a group.

http://www.sengokudaimyo.com/katchu/katchu.html

I've read this site since I considered this type of armor. There is almost too much information...for example, at one point he mentions that XYZ style would look great on an athletic body, but then the only tutorials are on XYV or XYB without many pictures. If he made some video of a type that works "best" in his opinion for SCA then that would probably be valuable since he clearly knows a LOT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7nBMezkJgQ
.

Heh. Look at 1:26 on this video to see the final result. This is one way to make newbs leave the SCA en mass. Specifically:
1. vambraces will cut into/abrade/ or at the very least limit his wrist movement
2. Solid "breastplate" will inhibit natural spinal flexion/extension and IN SOME PEOPLE cause spinal trauma. Seen it in others. Felt it. The goal for newb armor tutorial should be a mix between safety and anatomic functionality. Yes, a breastplate like this does great against spear thrusts, but so can other more flexible armors. I've seen newbs get packed with so much armor that they move like frankenstein...lame.
3. No protection for hamstrings, ass, lower legs, junctions between thigh plates and nut hut with superficial arteries/veins/nerves just waiting to get speared. Kneeling may or may not be painful. It depends on how that U-shaped knee cop moves with you.

Anyway, this video tutorial is a noble effort and more than sca.org has done, but it still produces an unsatisfactory result.
I would make some video tutorials, but I'm a newb without a satisfactory kit so I'm hardly in a position to teach others.

EDIT: But...giving up is out of the question. Where else can you have this kind of fun? I mean really, it's as close as feasible to real life D&D.

[Steve S.]

Heh. Look at 1:26 on this video to see the final result. This is one way to make newbs leave the SCA en mass. Specifically:
1. vambraces will cut into/abrade/ or at the very least limit his wrist movement
2. Solid "breastplate" will inhibit natural spinal flexion/extension and IN SOME PEOPLE cause spinal trauma. Seen it in others. Felt it. The goal for newb armor tutorial should be a mix between safety and anatomic functionality. Yes, a breastplate like this does great against spear thrusts, but so can other more flexible armors. I've seen newbs get packed with so much armor that they move like frankenstein...lame.
3. No protection for hamstrings, ass, lower legs, junctions between thigh plates and nut hut with superficial arteries/veins/nerves just waiting to get speared. Kneeling may or may not be painful. It depends on how that U-shaped knee cop moves with you..

1) All vambraces will slide down the natural taper of the forearm unless they are properly pointed to a foundation garment. Even if you choose not to do this, you can either file the opening of the cannon smooth, or stitch a hem of leather to it.

2) The torso armour shown, while hideously ugly, is nothing more than a coat of plates, and should present no more problems to the wearer than any historical coat of plates. If you wanted, you could segment the breast plate itself to be even more like a coat of plates.

3) I believe the intent was to create a cheap suit of armour that would satisfy the minimum SCA requirements, which it does.

I don't think anyone is going to hold up this suit of armour as the ideal that anyone should be shooting for. I myself would never fight in such a suit of armour, and would (and did) wait until I could acquire good armour to present myself on the field.

But what it shows is that you can create an entire suit of SCA-legal armour, minus the helm, for the cost of a plastic barrel.

And more, it would not take much more effort with some cloth to turn the coat of plates into a real-looking coat of plates, to make the cuisses look like real cuisses, and the vambraces like real vambraces. The elbow and knee cops would probably be the first things to replace with real metal, authentic-looking replacements.

What it shows is that the original poster's feeling of being overwhelmed can be overcome quite easily.

If you want to get on the field, it can be done.

Steve

[caladin]

To restate.

Set your goals to replace one piece of kit at a time.

start with a shield, get a little help and make on fitted to you.
use Birch ply wood, do the rest per this:
http://www.io.com/~caladin/shield.htm

then do a sword per the article on the same site:
http://www.io.com/~caladin/sword.htm

there are articles on a gorget and a half gauntlet, but those are really the best two.

Next, pick the piece of armor that annoys you the most out of the loaner gear and replace it. Ask for help and goto someone shop and use their tools to do it your self.

Get some cotton broadcloth and make some clothes to cover the armor.
go get help, there is often a sewing guild or someone that will help you learn how.

If you like the game enough, you'll get it done, if you don't hopefully you'll find something you do like.

Cal-

[Angusm0628]

You are not alone. I was 5'10", 150lbs when I started fighting. I have lots of similarly sized friends.
People of our stature are not spending all our time on the field. I think it's a combination of two things: first, that there are a lot of much bigger guys who don't know how to tone it the fuck down, and second, because there is usually a greater proportion of our bodies that will ruin our week if it gets hit with a stick. This puts quite a fine point on the need for better-than-average armor.

You are joking right? Hell I'm only 5'8 (granted, I'm over 200 pds and not nearly "in shape"). Calibration is calibration whether yer a short, tall, Galaxy class humanoid or what not.

[Swete]

Heh. Look at 1:26 on this video to see the final result. This is one way to make newbs leave the SCA en mass. Specifically:
1. vambraces will cut into/abrade/ or at the very least limit his wrist movement
2. Solid "breastplate" will inhibit natural spinal flexion/extension and IN SOME PEOPLE cause spinal trauma. Seen it in others. Felt it. The goal for newb armor tutorial should be a mix between safety and anatomic functionality. Yes, a breastplate like this does great against spear thrusts, but so can other more flexible armors. I've seen newbs get packed with so much armor that they move like frankenstein...lame.
3. No protection for hamstrings, ass, lower legs, junctions between thigh plates and nut hut with superficial arteries/veins/nerves just waiting to get speared. Kneeling may or may not be painful. It depends on how that U-shaped knee cop moves with you..

1) All vambraces will slide down the natural taper of the forearm unless they are properly pointed to a foundation garment. Even if you choose not to do this, you can either file the opening of the cannon smooth, or stitch a hem of leather to it.

2) The torso armour shown, while hideously ugly, is nothing more than a coat of plates, and should present no more problems to the wearer than any historical coat of plates. If you wanted, you could segment the breast plate itself to be even more like a coat of plates.

3) I believe the intent was to create a cheap suit of armour that would satisfy the minimum SCA requirements, which it does.

I don't think anyone is going to hold up this suit of armour as the ideal that anyone should be shooting for. I myself would never fight in such a suit of armour, and would (and did) wait until I could acquire good armour to present myself on the field.

But what it shows is that you can create an entire suit of SCA-legal armour, minus the helm, for the cost of a plastic barrel.

And more, it would not take much more effort with some cloth to turn the coat of plates into a real-looking coat of plates, to make the cuisses look like real cuisses, and the vambraces like real vambraces. The elbow and knee cops would probably be the first things to replace with real metal, authentic-looking replacements.

What it shows is that the original poster's feeling of being overwhelmed can be overcome quite easily.

If you want to get on the field, it can be done.

Steve

As I pointed out, and Steve reenforced, such armour should be covered and it would work. The plastic breastplate and hidden knees I wear look like utter shit, but when I wear my fighting garb over it, it appears as if I am not wearing armour. Which is the point! Oh, and a breastplate of plastic like that is still waaaaaaay safer than a kidney belt...because, "I know, *crazed snort* oh yes I know! I've done it!" (10 points if you can guess what videogame horror classic this is from ;p )

[Pitbull Armory]

Hi there, I love to do trades. Hell I think we all like trades on this board. You should post a thread on the classifieds with the items you have for trade and the items you need.

Theres enough good people on this forum to help you build what you cant trade for.

Let me know if I can be of any service.

Thank you

Pitbull

[Samuel]

If getting a kit together is overwhelming perhaps you should consider not doing it..

Fighting is going to be MUCH more overwhelming..

[Steve S.]

lol