Keeping Canvas stuck to my shield

[Ewan]

So, I love my plastic heater. I've used the same shield for over 10 years now. Problem is that I can't get canvas to stay looking on the face of it.
I finally have to build a new shield and want to solve this problem.

I was thining that facing the shield with a thin sheet of aluminium would allow me to keep the canvas alive longer. Thoughts?
I am terrible at maintaining my gear so the less work needed the better my gear will look.
Thanks!

[Ingvarr]

Not sure what you've been using to mount the canvas, but if adhesion is a problem, I'm guessing something that doesn't stick well to plastic. Might try a different adhesive. Might try scuffing the surface of the shield first. If you can't get canvas to stay attached, how do you plan on keeping aluminum attached? For that matter, if you are going to face your shield with aluminum, you are going to lose the lightness of the plastic anyway, so why not just switch to an aluminum shield?

[Ewan]

I don't use the plastic for weight. I've used the SAME shield for 10+ years.
I have tried everything you described above over the years and it is always the same. Put a new piece of canvas on the shield paint it up nice (I'm not very good at that) and one or two fights I have a tear and the plastic shows.

I was thinking I could rivit the aluminium to the face and then a good scuff and contact cement would hold that canvas way better than the way it works now.

[Sir Gunn]

I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert on this, but epoxy should do the trick. Really scuff up the surface if the shield. Also, make sure that there are no loose points/air pockets. These will make it easy for the canvas to get caught on anything, be it sword, stick, shield, or armor. Hope that helps

[Ingvarr]

You'll get tears in the canvas regardless of what it is stuck to. when you do, stick it back down. I can't help but wonder if the plastic flexing causes problems with it sticking down. Aluminum might help by adding rigidity, if so.

[InsaneIrish]

plastic shields make da babee Jebus cry.

[owen matthew]

Can you post pictures of your shield, and let us know how you made plastic work, and what kind? I am interested in experimenting with this. Thank you!!!

I would think for adhesion you would need to really scuff up the plastic, then use a non-rigid glue or epoxy and really saturate the canvas and make sure there are no air holes or bubbles. Then coat the canvas in rabit skin glue, better for sealing than gesso as that is more rigid and will crack.

[Jestyr]

plastic shields make da babee Jebus cry.

You think?

If it is covered with canvas, I don't see much of a difference between that and aluminum. I guess for me it falls along the same lines as plastic armour.

Uncovered, much like the baldar cuphilts and plastic bosses, I agree you wholeheartedly.

[Ewan]

plastic shields make da babee Jebus cry.

As compared to uncovered thin aluminum?
Or fibreglass saturated commercially produced plywood? (I think Vitus' shield are awesome, btw)

Or rubber edging? or car door trim lock? Come on man.



I cover both sides of my shield, use rawhide for edging. The only time you know my shield is plastic is when the canvass tears. Hence the question.

[Ewan]

Can you post pictures of your shield, and let us know how you made plastic work, and what kind? I am interested in experimenting with this. Thank you!!!

I would think for adhesion you would need to really scuff up the plastic, then use a non-rigid glue or epoxy and really saturate the canvas and make sure there are no air holes or bubbles. Then coat the canvas in rabit skin glue, better for sealing than gesso as that is more rigid and will crack.

Have a look at my facebook if you are on there: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001439569634

What do you mean by "non rigid" glue and what is Rabbit Skin glue.

My shields come out of scraps from the big tubes they make playground slides out of.

[Frederich Von Teufel]

Neither plastic nor aluminum allow any penetration past the suface of the adhesive and this is where the primary flaw lies. Here is how I've overcome the problem (at least on aluminum and wood shields; I never worked with a plastic peice.)

Ensure that the canvas cover is sufficient for the job, a rattan sword will chew 8 oz cotton 'canvas' up like Pringles here in Atlantia, but 12 or 15 oz will last for years (or, in other words, make sure what you are using is really canvas, not just being sold as such.) Cut the canvas so it follows the shape of the shield with a 'wrap-around' of 2-4 inches. Put on a pair of nitrile gloves and an apron, and cover your work area with newspaper or ground cloth to catch any drips of glue. The surface of the aluminum must be roughed up; I've found that 60 grit hand rubbed all over the surface in circles until it has a matt non-reflective surface provides a good foundation. Lay down a coating of glue on the face of the shield (there are a number of very good polymer glues to choose from, pick one that has a fairly long work time rather than having a 5 minute epoxy harden on you halfway through). Lay the canvas over the sheild and work from the center out removing wrinkles and bubbles. Once you have a clean bond, then apply another coating of glue over the top of the canvas, again starting from the center and working out; auto part store sell plastic scrapers that do a really good job of this. Once the entire face is covered, then start working on wrapping the canvas around to the back; I work from the corners to the center of each edge, letting the fabric make overlapping pleats where it wants to, just make sure you are using enough glue, without it becoming excessive.

I know that Vitus makes nearly indestructible shields by letting the glue cure and then reapplying successive layers of glue, but personally I move on to painting after one layer of glue. However, I do apply a primer coat over the canvas before moving on to painting my device, and I have found that this extra layer of paint (which is really just a form of glue with pigment) does affect the longevity.

I have a 'trainer shield' (i.e. a shield I use that is intended to be a target for students, taking full repeated sword blows) that shows heavy wear, but not a single tear.


Frederich

[Rasper77]

Im of the same opinion as Frederich .
I think if you put a coat of somthing over the Canvas it will hold up better.
Maybe Contact Cement it onto the shield then add another glue
over the face to make it a more of a solid sheet and less likly to rip.
Maybe us a water/tight bond 3 mix over the face.?

It works wonders on making the canvas last on wooden shields.

[losthelm]

I have had good luck with spray adhesive for the glue surface and gesso enuff canvas to wrap the corners and a small drill bit to saddle stich down the material. Usualy 3/4 to 1" from the edge and spaces 3/4 form each other. plastic canvas makes a very good layout tool.
The gessoed canvas takes paint well and when the canvas tears you can just touch it up.

I am not sure how well the gesso handles the flex of a plastic shield. it seams to holdup quite well for aluminum and wood.

[fghthty545y]

Origional tacky glue does a lot.

[Visigoth]

I never have any trouble with canvis coming off plastic, I just use a canvis drop cloth "from lowes" and Gel Contact ciment (I use a angle grinder with a whire brush head to roughen up the surface, paint both the shield and the canvis let it driy and then apply...

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/viatus/5157324383/" title="Untitled by viatus, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/5157324383_ffabf47950.jpg" width="374" height="500" alt=""></a><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/viatus/5168214188/" title="Front by viatus, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4046/5168214188_a9abbb01d9.jpg" width="374" height="500" alt="Front"></a>
Man I could relly use a spell checker tool >_<
"Edit" ouch harsh words Konstantin

[Konstantin the Red]

My spellchecker is wetware, sir. Only took about a year's training in elementary school. It was called "Phonics," and no reader or writer of English should ever have gone without it, in my greybearded opinion.

In a word, Phonics rehearses the various -- and erratic -- ways English has of writing its forty-odd sounds with twenty-six letters, and which words go with which ways.

It dovetailed well with spelling class, sounding out unfamiliar words with a bunch of syllables, and with the technical details we were getting at that level of education -- we could all spell prefix and suffix, and knew their meanings well.

[Kel Rekuta]

Tony, if the material is polyethylene there is no adhesive currently known to man that will adhere to it permanently. The best you can hope for is a mechanical bond created by roughing up the surface so adhesive has more surface area to grip.

If it isn't PET then there is hope. Any of the vinyl compounds (PVA, PVC) can form a chemical bond with vinyl based adhesives. Some of the most oil, chemical, scuff and heat resistant soling for industrial footwear is bonded with this stuff. Flooring stores and top end paint suppliers as well as - surprise! - shoe industry suppliers carry it. LaBelle Supply in Vancouver definitely carries at least one brand of it, maybe more in one litre cans. There are shoe trade vendors in Alta as well but LaBelle is one of the largest in Canada. Lorne has the stuff.

For really tough jobs there is a two part surface prep that resembles chlorine bleach on steroids. If you have to go to that length - reconsider the material for the application.

[M.C.Allen]

Ewan, don't try to stick the canvas to the shield. Plastic and aluminum shield flex a lot and the flex causes the canvas to stretch which causes the canvas to tear/split. Cover the shield by making a canvas face that you would then lace on the shield. Sew a channel around the canvas face and run a heavy cord through it. Paint the cover and your plastic shield will not be seen. Because the cover is loose and not stuck to the shield there will be some slack for the flex to take up before tearing can occur. In full disclosure this is not my idea, I saw it on the plastic shield of Graf von Langnetall. (So I file off the serial numbers and use it anyway)

[Greenshield]

Burlap.

I use burlap on wood or metal shields & it should work the same on plastic. Scuff the outer surface. Apply a generous amount of Titebond III wether resistant glue (Home Despot-Lowes) to the surface then lay the burlap over this. Take a puddy spreader to the surface and smooth the burlap with the spreader forcing it smooth and the glue through the burlap. Apply extra as needed should dry spots appear.

Allow to dry fully.

Once dry, add another generous coat of glue over the burlap. Allow this to dry fully. At this point you will have a solid faced shield that should last you at least a year of heavy SCA combat. Provided you use proper shield edging. It also provides a period exterior to the shield and dampens the 'bounce back' your opponents may rely on for combination shots

If you try this on your plastic, please let me know how it works for you.

GreenShield