A training trick.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

You need to build two swords- one will be your pell sword and one will be your fighting-other-guys sword.

Get two basket hilts that are EXACTLY alike in shape and size, but one must be heavier. I use both versions of the Ebonwulfe hilts, and have another backup sword with a Strawberry Fields hilt.

The stainless version of the Ebonwulfe hilt is slightly heavier than the aluminum version. I use the Stainless version as my pell sword. The aluminum hilts I use on my fightin' ones.

Cut two sticks of the exact same length. When you rig up your pell sword, wrap the stick in two layers of strapping tape, thus making the blade a bit heavier than your other one. Put one layer of duct tape on the pell sword. To make your pell sword just a bit heavier on the bottom, take some light/medium thickness wire and wrap it around the bottom tang of the hilt where it meets the sword. After going around it like ten times, cover all that wire with duct tape.

Now your pell sword is heavier than your fighting sword, but the proportions are exact in all the important ways.

Now, EVERY OTHER pell session add a layer of duct tape to your pell sword. You are now training your arm -under a slightly greater load- while adding weight to the thing in amazingly small increments. Over time, your fighting sword will basically feel like nothing.

You're welcome.

[AwP]

Yup, that's what the Romans did, basically, and it seemed to work pretty good for them.

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Interesting concept. I do have one comment that may burst the bubble though.

I don't need to exert as much effort to get the power out of the heavier sword so it is concievable that I will not hit hard enough with the lighter sword.

I am not saying this is going to be the case.... but .... it can be. I know a knight who is wickedly fast but if he forgets to use his heavier sword winds up hitting light. He is equally fast with either due to fantastic technique but sometimes just hits light. YMMV

regards
ThorvaldR

[Stefan ap Llewelyn]

Won't this teach your body incorrect body mechanics for your 'real' sword?

It will make you stronger I guess but surely your angles etc will be different using a differently weighted sword?

[Vitus von Atzinger]

At the beggining of the process your pell sword will only be very slightly heavier than your tourney one.

Your lines should not change at all. If you tried to cut combat lines with a sword-bell you would have big trouble. A sword-bell is heavier than a pell sword, and should be swung in the same way that an Indian club would be swung around.

You work out with sword-bells and pell swords. Your fighting sword will now give very little/ almost zero fatigue to your arm, which will now be almost tireless under it's strain. This will not change your lines at all. You only pick up your fighting sword when you fight.

You do workouts with your sword-bell or whatever weight-training device you want, and you do pell work with a sword that gets heavier by such small increments that you never notice it. When your pell sword is about 1 pound heavier than your fighting sword, stop adding the tape.

When you make a new pell sword tape it up until you reach the weight of the one you just wore out.

This concept has nothing to do with power generation or screwing up the lines you use, it is about the muscular endurance of your sword arm.

If you use a sword that is so light that you do whippy, tippy-tappy stuff and do stuff like throw behind your back and other crap like that I can't help you- you are already stick-fighting and cannot be saved.

NEVER go over the one pound limit with your pell sword.

[Roland Brokentooth]

This kind of jumps off of this and ties into my other thread but:

Sir Vitus, what does a typical pell workout consist of for you?

[Jestyr]

This is a concept used in baseball by using a donut (or weighted sleeve) on your bat. You take a couple of cuts with the heavier bat, so when you swing the normal bat, it feels lighter. A lot of people swear by this, and you see many major leaguers do this when they are on deck.

However there is another school of thought regarding this.

Ray DeMarini suggested that this technique, done over a long period of time, actually slows down a hitter's swing speed, thus reducing power. As it applies to our game, this can mean that your shots will go slower and hit with less power. The reason Ray felt this was because you want to teach your body about speed, much like a boxer's speed bag. Testing supported his theory, and when many hitters started training with wiffle ball bat (a light, plastic bat), their swing speed increased.

Most baseball/softball hitting experts now agree that a combination of power training (weighted bat) and speed training (lighter bat) is ideal.

Now, baseball/softball is different from what we do in many ways, so it is possible that it not a related concept. But it seems close enough that this combination technique can be used -- one for strength and endurance (what Vitus suggests) and the other for speed.

Vitus: have you ever done speed tests on your shots when using this technique and when not?

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I do the Uther bit that was taught to me by Duke Andrew of Seldom Rest back in 1987.

I also do spark shots, blind shots and endurance exercises.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

For a number of years I had the fastest sword in the South Oaken region of the Middle Kingdom- this is just a fact. Duke Ullr had better timing even as a kid, and Sir Bonar was also blindingly fast.

However, I could hit you in the helmet or leg before you even knew what was happening. One of the coolest guys who ever has ever existed (Duke SIR Gareth le Bruin) was my model. I have rarely seen a person who could throw a blow as fast as I could in the years 1991-6. However at that time I hit about ONE event a year tops because I was a douchebag.

This ability came from what I call "spark" training on the pell.

[Kilkenny]

There is a very real potential for the problem Thorvalrdr raises.

As I've aged, my reaction time has slowed. It's inevitable, but irritating. In various efforts to try to recover bits and pieces of quickness, I've tried using lighter swords.

And I don't hit effectively with them. I've got thirty plus years worth of body mechanics perfected for swords that weigh 4.5 to 5 pounds. A 3 pound sword requires different mechanics and I have found adjusting to be extremely difficult. Enough so that I'm staying with heavy swords and looking for other means of compensating for my slowing down.

It is not something that everyone will have a problem with, and the kind of training Vitus describes may not lead to it at all. It is something to be aware of as a possibility.

Sir Vitus, could you expound a bit on "spark" training ?

[Vitus von Atzinger]

What Gavin said is EXACTLY what I am talking about. I have RUINED my upper body from exploding my sword forward with the lightest sword I could find. I MUST use a heavier sword to keep me from further injuring myself. Now my sword weighs the SAME as a heavier, shorter steel medieval sword. What I need the most is muscular endurance of my sword arm, combined with QUICKNESS, which is NOT THE SAME as speed.

More on spark training later. Alot of people already know what it is, but few people know how to train for it.

[Glaukos the Athenian]

This thread is excellent and I am reading it very, very carefully.

Glaukos

[raito]

When I was young, I won a lot of tournaments fighting with swords that were maybe 18" long. I was poor, and I used a lot of people's broken cast-offs. But I was pretty fast, and those short wepoans moved pretty well for me.

Like thye rest of you old guys, I'm not quite as fast anymore. Any my swords have changed. Mine are now 35" of rattan, with a thrusting tip and an 8" hilt. They don't weigh a lot, because the real counterpart doesn't, and I got into this game because I wanted to know how it was to fight in armor, and that includes using weapons of correct weight.

These days, I concentrate a lot more on footwork and timing than stright-up technique.

In terms John Boyd would understand, I've shortened by observation, orientation, and decision to make up for my slippage in acting.

If you know what the other guy is going to do, it's very hard for him to beat you, regardless of his speed. If you know enough technique, you always have an out, it's hard for him to beat you, regardless of what he decides to do.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

V is dead on. There is a big difference between quickness and speed.

In our game, the difference between most experienced fighters (anyone fighting consistently for 5+ years, or those "freaks") stick speed is negligeble. But the quickness off the line can vary greatly.

I've abused my body to a huge degree - before I even found the SCA. Tore it up bad in the years I've done SCA combat. Now I'm finding myself at a point where I have to rebuild - physically, tactically and in technique - to continue to fight at a level I want to. It is taking a lot of work, a very good sports doc (and staff) and the willingness to admit much of what I did HAS to change for this to happen.

Including what I want to get out of SCA combat.

But when I get rolling again....


.

[AEiric Orvender]

Is this full speed, half or slow work on the pell...


and speaking of pells...
What type of pell should be used?

[Diglach Mac Cein]

Full speed / full power = bad.

1/2 speed / full power * = OK in small amounts

Slow Speed / full power* = OK

* By full power, I mean full follow through, blade through the target. This trains muscle memory to follow through properly, at any speed.

On a SOFT pell, 1/2 speed / full power is OK.

If you're gonna send an impact though your joints, might as well do it hitting an opponent...
.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

My pells are:

Outdoors - 4x4 post sunk into the ground, wrapped in reinforced air hose at the head and leg zones, and in poly rope for the rest.

Indoors - professional grade heavy bag for boxing. 150 pound of sawdust in a double layer canvas shell.


.

[Konstantin the Red]

Vitus, by "sword bells" do you mean something like the old Heavyhands with the greater weight screwed onto the thumb, or medial, side? Is there an updated form of this critter now?

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I will take a picture of my sword bell tomorrow.

[Eduard]

Hey Vitus,

Why not try dumbbell kickbacks or one-arm cable exercises to train your sword arm. It is what I do.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Your Grace-
Because kickbacks will destroy your elbow.
-Vitus

[Eduard]

Your Grace-
Because kickbacks will destroy your elbow.
-Vitus

Interesting. I have been doing them for about 20 years and have never experienced any problems from them. Then again, I hear the same issue with Leg Extensions and have never had issues with them either.

I think the big problem is people try to go TOO HEAVY on these exercises. Instead of going really heavy, one should use a weight where 12 or more reps can be performed all the while focusing on flexing the muscle as hard as possible. In my experience this prevents any injury.

[Blackoak]

Your Grace-
Because kickbacks will destroy your elbow.
-Vitus

Interesting. I have been doing them for about 20 years and have never experienced any problems from them. Then again, I hear the same issue with Leg Extensions and have never had issues with them either.

I think the big problem is people try to go TOO HEAVY on these exercises. Instead of going really heavy, one should use a weight where 12 or more reps can be performed all the while focusing on flexing the muscle as hard as possible. In my experience this prevents any injury.

There is also some recent research that shows that using a lighter weight and doing sets til burnout have the same effect on strength and conditioning. Lower weight & proper form is much better for your body.

Another important thing to remember doing pell work is to focus your breathing to follow your shot. Exhale with the shot & inhale coming back.

Aeiric, my pell is 4 six foot lengths of 3" dock rope taped together. Whatever pell you use, try to get a material with minimal bounce back effect.

Uric

[Amanda M]

On the pell note, I made myself a hanging pell recently out of 5" firehose, which I stuffed with old clothes. It sucks your stick in. So it's a good choice for anyone looking for something without any bounce to it and you might be able to get some free from a local FD.

[Noe]

Vitus,

I am curious about this spark shot and blind shot drills of which you speak. Could you tell a bit more about them?

[Chris G.]

Until Sir Vitus posts his information on Spark shot training here is my understanding of it.


A spark shot is a blow thrown very quickly without a tell, usually in the instant your opponent is in an unready mental state. It is a combination of readiness to throw the blow on your part by having your muscles tensioned and waiting for that instant when your opponent is least likely to react.

Blind shot drills are for practicing shots where you can't see or don't look at your target. For example, the leg, right above the knee where it becomes a legal shot. You practice this by either marking a spot of the appropriate height on your pell or having a partner stand with a shield while you practice landing the blow in the exact spot you want without looking down.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

My squire has it right.

The missing piece of the puzzle for many fighters is breath control and gaining power from breath control.

The best way to train for spark shots is on a pell or on a fighter of very low skill who has a very safe helmet. Learning to explode from an ABSOLUTELY still position must be mastered, because only then can a fighter be ready to employ the spark while blocking and moving around. It is through mastery of proper nose-breathing that the fuel is collected for a sword blow that moves 500MPH from a completely static place.

More later.

[Kel Rekuta]

Vitus, you always have an interesting perspective on things. I look forward to reading your thoughts on this - which I've heard described elsewhere as the storm from calm, a wave from stillness and other Zen -like analogies. I think I know what you mean here - please find some time to share your thoughts on this. I would enjoy a discussion of this.

[Eduard]

Your Grace-
Because kickbacks will destroy your elbow.
-Vitus

Hey Vitus,

I contacted a friend of mine about this since I have never heard of this. His name is Keith Scott and he is as Strength Coach, Injury and Rehab Specialist, as well as a writer for Men's Fitness. He said they should not hurt you. He DID say that their are plenty of better ways to work the triceps (floor presses, close grip bench, lying triceps ext) but did not think these would cause issues.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

In my case, they most certainly did.

[Rey]

Duke Gareth does indeed have fast hands and upper body and as far as I know I don't think he's ever touched a Pell. Me either for that matter.

You can't teach speed.

Rey

For a number of years I had the fastest sword in the South Oaken region of the Middle Kingdom- this is just a fact. Duke Ullr had better timing even as a kid, and Sir Bonar was also blindingly fast.

However, I could hit you in the helmet or leg before you even knew what was happening. One of the coolest guys who ever has ever existed (Duke SIR Gareth le Bruin) was my model. I have rarely seen a person who could throw a blow as fast as I could in the years 1991-6. However at that time I hit about ONE event a year tops because I was a douchebag.

This ability came from what I call "spark" training on the pell.

[Kilkenny]

My squire has it right.

The missing piece of the puzzle for many fighters is breath control and gaining power from breath control.

The best way to train for spark shots is on a pell or on a fighter of very low skill who has a very safe helmet. Learning to explode from an ABSOLUTELY still position must be mastered, because only then can a fighter be ready to employ the spark while blocking and moving around. It is through mastery of proper nose-breathing that the fuel is collected for a sword blow that moves 500MPH from a completely static place.

More later.

That's not just hyperbole

[Caedmon]

My squire has it right.

The missing piece of the puzzle for many fighters is breath control and gaining power from breath control.

The best way to train for spark shots is on a pell or on a fighter of very low skill who has a very safe helmet. Learning to explode from an ABSOLUTELY still position must be mastered, because only then can a fighter be ready to employ the spark while blocking and moving around. It is through mastery of proper nose-breathing that the fuel is collected for a sword blow that moves 500MPH from a completely static place.

More later.

Aha - I have always referred to this as a twitch shot. The opening presents itself and all the muscles from the ground up to the hand reflexively "twitch" in unison (or in very close sequence from the legs up) giving a very fast shot. I have found slow work (tai chi style) to be most effective for building up the proper muscle memory for this, followed by pell work to practice at speed. After a really good day's practice (NOT sparring) I sometimes find myself twitching myself awake just as I am falling asleep - a sure sign of a good practice.

Hmm - this thread has got me itching to practice. Thanks

Caedmon

[Caedmon]

Duke Gareth does indeed have fast hands and upper body and as far as I know I don't think he's ever touched a Pell. Me either for that matter.

You can't teach speed.

Rey

For a number of years I had the fastest sword in the South Oaken region of the Middle Kingdom- this is just a fact. Duke Ullr had better timing even as a kid, and Sir Bonar was also blindingly fast.

However, I could hit you in the helmet or leg before you even knew what was happening. One of the coolest guys who ever has ever existed (Duke SIR Gareth le Bruin) was my model. I have rarely seen a person who could throw a blow as fast as I could in the years 1991-6. However at that time I hit about ONE event a year tops because I was a douchebag.

This ability came from what I call "spark" training on the pell.

Your Excellency, both you and His Grace Gareth are HUGE and powerful men. Of course you have speed - swords are like switches to you.
I have had to train for speed, and although my shots are still not as fast as yours, they did speed up considerably from training.

Caedmon

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I have always felt that "human pells" were the best way to learn spark or blind attack lines, but then I was forced to learn to hit much harder.