fabric used for fighting tunic?

[cypher]

What is a good fabric to use for a fighting tunic for SCA heavy combat?
I'm looking for something to make a basic knee length, long sleeved t-tunic for a 10th century viking persona.

I have no clue about types of fabric. I can tell wool, from linen, from cotton and thats about as far as it goes. When it comes to weights and weaves im totally lost. Can anyone provide links to online stores to specific fabrics (not jut the store itself)? color is unimportant.

also any links to specific wool fabric that can be used for tunics or cloaks would be very appreciated.

Thank You.

[Keegan Ingrassia]

Linen, medium to heavy weight. Strong and breathable.
Med: http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php? ... =&weight=3
Heavy: http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php? ... =&weight=4
Canvas: http://www.fabrics-store.com/first.php? ... =&weight=5

As for wool fabric for tunics and cloaks, you've a few options.
http://www.denverfabrics.com/pages/stat ... fabric.htm

Gaberdine is a thin, lightweight wool that doesn't shrink or full (fuzz) up much. Its good for warm weather, but needs to be lined in another fabric, and the seams need to be finished, because it will fray like normal fabric. It works nicely for warm-weather clothing.
http://www.denverfabrics.com/search/sea ... wool%20gab

Coating wools are usually much heavier, full up very well, and can make excellent cloaks to keep out rain and cold. If washed and dried hot, the fabric will fuzz up and shrink, which is called fulling. This makes is stretchy, a bit warmer, and keeps any raw edge from fraying, an admirable feature for a cloak, as you don't have to sew all the edges. Most importantly, it makes the cloth a bit weatherproof, letting the water roll off of it. And when it eventually does get wet, it can absorb 60% more water than cotton, before you will ever feel wet. I've walked through summer thunderstorms wearing the hood I made from fabric such as this. The outside was soaked, while the inside still felt bone dry.
http://www.denverfabrics.com/search/sea ... %20coating
And if you want to get fancy with your cloak, you could always line it in linen or silk, later, or add some fur trim to the hood.

Avoid polyester, it is the devil of fabrics.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

I have a tropical weight herringbone twill wool tunic lined with linen. Worked quite nicely as a fighting tunic for both cold winters and hot humid summers in Korea and Texas.

[Konstantin the Red]

For stuff to beat on, pick heavier fabric over light fabric. If this is a coverup going over all your gear, then a discount wool or wool blend if you find one acceptable. Linen runs pricey unless you shop online and save that way. Cotton, or used cotton, you'll get what you pay for.

New silk in a heavy weight is surprisingly strong because of its great length of fiber, like the best quality linen, and which exceeds the best cotton. Cotton comes in two overall grades. The best is long-staple, using the longest fibers of the cotton boll. Short-staple cotton, using the short fibers, is the cheap kind and doesn't last well; it starts to really fray at two years. Lousy bargain.

Linen (and not so linen) at Fabric.com -- pick the linen only, and not the "linen look" "linen blend" and like BS.

Wools & Blends, same place. Also run down the column on the left side of the page to select by price, width of bolt, color, whatever seems to suit.

[Jestyr]

It is for practice, I would use whatever since it will get beat up. I use an older version of my real kit.

For my "real" kit, I use medium (5.3 oz) to heavy weight (7 oz) linen from fabric-store.com.

The medium weight will get little tear/wear holes easier, so if it will be your only good fighting tunic, get the heavier stuff. If you'll have a few, then the medium should hold up fine. You can always patch up the holes if they bother you.

[Thomas MacFinn]

From http://board.belegarth.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30969

Hi everyone,

I find myself talking alot about the benefits of natural fabrics and the differences between the different types and their benefits and disadvantages. Also, 2009 is the official International Year of Natural Fibers (as declared by the UN).

So, this thread will be devoted to why you should wear natural fabrics (especially linen and wool, which were the main textiles worn in period) in your garb, and where to get them.

And yes, this thread is entirely Eurocentric, and written from a Northern European perspective. I'm sorry if I'm not PC enough for you, but that's what I know about, so that's the perspective I write from. It usually doesn't matter, though.

This was originally posted on the Dag boards, and I was intending to wait and include it in a garb how-to site that Faline and I have been talking about putting together, but I figure I might as well go ahead and repost it. Sorry if I miss changing and mentions of Dag to Bel, it's all the same thing as far as I'm concerned, as I just don't care about the politics. If you're offended that I talk about Ragnarok instead of Armageddon, I'm sorry, but due to a number of circumstances chief of which is that Rag is the Fianna's big event, that's which event I go to. I'm sure that the climate and duration are roughly the same, though--hot and humid in the day, surprisingly chilly at night, often wet, and a week long. You could call it Pennsic or Estrella or Clan Wars just as easily and a lot of the same things apply.

Wool

We modern people have awful ideas about wool. It's hot, it's itchy, it's made into sweaters and socks and only to be worn in winter and never against the skin.

Forget all that, it's *. Or, to be more truthful, it's sometimes true, but sometimes very false, and for summer garb what you're looking for is the instances in which it's false. So, I'm going to break this up into two sections, one about the wool you want for summer garb, and one about the wool you want for winter garb.

Summer Wool

The key word here is "worsted". Worsted wool is woven from the long, straight hairs on the sheep's back, which have the least hooks (these are the little curly bits off the side of the fiber that make it itch) and don't curl and twist like the shorter hairs which "woolen" wool (that's the other type, worsteds and woolens, kinda confusing, I know) is made from.

So, why should you wear wool in the summertime? The short answer: It breaths and it wicks. Like nothing else you've ever worn. Breeze blows through wool fabric like it's not even there, and the wool is great at wicking away sweat from your body and evaporating it into the air--a huge surface area inside the fabric is exposed to wind, so there's a ton of surface area from which it evaporates. And that same breeze recirculates the air so that the air against your body doesn't get too warm.

It's also a lot smoother than your grandma's old itchy Irish sweater. Alric told me that when he got his first worsted wool, it felt almost as smooth as polyester, and he just couldn't help thinking that it couldn't be a natural fiber, it had to be artificial it was so smooth. My first thoughts were roughly the same. I won't lie to you, it's not actually as smooth as polyester, and it takes some getting used to wearing it against your skin. It'll be a bit scratchy and rough, but only because we're so accustomed to the unnatural smoothness of artificial fibers or the equally unnatural downy softness of knit cotton (aka tshirts).

The other benefit at events like Ragnarok is that lanolin, the oil from sheep's hair and skin, is very slightly antiseptic. It won't stop you from getting a cold, the flu, black plague, small pox, ebola, syphilis, AIDS, cooties, dandruff, or your mom's bad perfume--although if you do it Medieval style and use a lambskin condom, it might do something for syphilis. Don't take that as medical advice, though. What it will do is prevent bacteria and fungi from your skin and the environment from growing in the fabric itself, which will severely impede the growth of mildew, or body odor (which is actually caused by bacteria eating your sweat). You'll have to wash it by hand, but you'll also have to wash it much less often.

The other benefit is that these will still keep you reasonably warm when it gets cold at night at events like Rag.

Winter Wool

A lot of the same things apply, but you'll want a thicker fabric, and likely a woven (not knit!) woolen fabric, like melton or a light coating wool. These are not itchy AT ALL, but will be very warm. Cloaks, coats, kaftans and the like for winter use should be made from a heavier coating wool and lined with linen to help block the wind a bit better, while summer cloaks for nighttime wear when it'll be chilly but not cold are best made from a melton or light coating wool and unlined.

Washing Wool

Most wool says its dry-clean only. What this really means is that you can't machine wash it, and clothes manufacturers assume you won't handwash your clothes. Well, I can't recommend hand-washing wool more. You CAN machine wash it on a cold, gentle cycle, but this is NOT recommended. Wash it by hand in cold to lukewarm but NOT hot water with some sort of wool washing product like Eucalan, which include lanolin to help condition and resoften the wool. Baby shampoo and conditioner work too, and they do wonders to make wool soft, but I'd still use Eucalan or another lanolin-containing product on your wool every so often. HANG DRY YOUR WOOL CLOTHING. DO NOT put it in the dryer! Dryers damage all clothing over time, but they will destroy wool in the short term, whereas they only destroy your tshirts in the long term.

You can actually use Eucalan in the washing machine, it includes instructions for doing so, but tbh, it's easier to just handwash small quantities. Just remember, though, that you don't have to wash wool after every time you wear it. Wash it after events or when it has visible stains, but it's very resistant to decay and odor, so you don't have to wash it much.

Downsides of Wool

It's more expensive. It just is. Generally, you're looking at $10/yard or so for worsted and around $15 to $20 for coating wool, but if you do it right, you can get a tunic or pants out of only 2 yards or less, so that's an outfit of garb in a good fabric for less than you paid in materials for your sword and shield, and about the cost of your sword alone if you bought it from Edhellen or another merchant. In my opinion the more expensive fabric more than makes up for its higher cost.

It needs to be handwashed. Take it or leave it, I don't mind.

It's scratchy. Even the nicest wool will feel a little bit scratchy to us at first, but you get used to it pretty quick (I did, and I'm a sucker for comfortable clothes, so if I can like it, you can too), and anyway, a linen undertunic is highly recommended for reasons that I'll discuss below.

It's an allergen. Some people are allergic to lanolin. It's unavoidable, but it's a very small number of people. Most people who are allergic to wool are actually allergic to the exceptionally harsh chemicals that we use during the production process to homogenize it and remove every trace of organic debris from the fabric, and which does a huge amount of damage to the fibers that means they then have to add more chemicals to fix. Most people who are allergic to wool already know who they are, though.

Religious prohibitions. This one probably doesn't come up very often in Belegarth, but those who follow Kosher laws can't wear wool and linen together, which is a huge bummer. Contrary to most English, Christian translations of the Bible, it doesn't say not to wear cloth of two fibers, it says not to mix linen and wool, I'm not sure if this means only linsey-woolsey and other fabrics that contain linen and wool in the same fabric, or wearing linen cloth and wool cloth together, although I would be surprised if Rabbinical interpretation didn't forbid both anyway. Again, this is one of those things that you know already if it'll be a problem for you.

Wool Suppliers

http://www.bblackandsons.com/fabrics-wo ... ce25f23984

B. Black and Sons sell very high quality wool fabric, this is the link to their tropical wools page. These were on sale since about October for $10/yard, but that sale seems to have ended now, although some of the colors are still somewhat discounted. This is great quality stuff!

http://www.burnleyandtrowbridge.com/ind ... ategory=10

Burnley and Trowbridge cater primarily to 18th and 19th century reenactors, but a lot of their stuff works fine for our period as well. They have worsted wools in scarlet, off white (these two are the one labeled serge, it IS worsted), madder (the "Camblet", it is as well--this is a BEAUTIFUL red loosewoven fabric), cinammon, red and purple striped, soft blue and black. Their catalog changes every so often, so check back. Their swatch packet is $4 for a sample of EVERY fabric they have in stock, it's a great buy, especially because it allows you to actually get your hands on what the stuff feels like.

More suppliers to come!

Linen

Linen is cloth made from the fibers of the flax plant. It is strong, durable, and well known for being wonderfully comfortable in hot weather. Flax has probably been used for at least 10,000 years in Europe alone, making it probably the earliest textile. It was produced in large quantities in Europe throughout recorded history, and, behind wool, was the second most common textile in that continent throughout the entirety of Belegarth's period. It was available in at least some quantity to most classes of society and worn most common for undergarments or nicer clothing than wool. In a lot of linen-producing countries, especially in Northern Europe, most linen was produced by cottage labor not by organized industry. Most peoples' linen in these countries were grown in their own back yards and woven in their own house, so that fine quality linen was available to a lot of people, and the remainder was traded away and often eventually exported.

There's really nothing to say about linen other than it's great. It can hold up to 30%* of its own weight in moisture before it feels damp, twice as much as cotton, which means that it absorbs your sweat like nothing else, and dries relatively quickly to help in cooling. It's strong, it's durable. It's resistant to abrasion and cutting (and therefore can be layered and laminated to make armour cheaper and probably better than leather), but can be damaged by sweat and bleach, so you should never bleach it and should wash it frequently. The washing machine on a gentle cycle is fine, but it should definitely be air dried . . . just don't use the dryer. Just don't.

(*Looking around more, I've seen numbers between 30% and 50% depending on exactly how it's calculated, but the twice as much as cotton thing is roughly accurate)

Linen doesn't accept dyes as well as wool does, so if you care much about authenticity you should keep your linen colors a bit more muted. True black is right out for most of the Middle Ages.

Wikipedia has a very good article describing the properties of linen, it's an informative read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linen

You get the picture. I love linen. Linen is awesome. Wear linen. It's more comfortable in the heat than cotton, is almost as soft and nice to the touch, and feels cool in even the hottest weather. I'll take a linen shirt over underarmour any day of the week.

Linen and Wool

Linen and wool, worn together, combine the best aspects of both fabrics. A light linen shirt or undertunic under a light wool tunic provides the comfort and coolness of linen combined with the exceptional breathability and wicking properties of wool. The linen soaks up your sweat and transfers it to the wool which wicks it away to evaporate into the air faster than the linen alone could. You WILL sweat a lot wearing this in hot weather, but as long as you stay very well hydrated, it will keep you cool with a wonderful efficiency. Just so we're clear, I'm not claiming it has magic properties, you'll still feel the heat, but if you do it right this will keep you healthy and comfortable as well as looking awesome.

This is, admittedly, somewhat less effective in climates where it's extremely humid, which often applies to much of the US during the worst parts of summer, but you'll have to base your garb choices on your own local environment, and the breathability of the wool means that you will not get all that much hotter wearing both together. Try it out and see what suits you . . . the best clothing choices for southern California, Alabama and middle Ohio will not be quite the same. This combination is amazing in very hot, dry heats where there's usually a good breeze . . . I did it in Egypt in up to 120 degree heat last summer (although as I was packing light I sometimes used underarmour instead of the linen depending what was clean, but the linen was clearly superior) and felt great (or at least as good as it's possible to feel in 120 degrees with the sun blazing down and food parasites destroying your bowels). By which I mean, I felt a lot more comfortable in the heat than most of the Americans and other Westerners I saw sunburning and dehydrated in tank tops and shorts of cotton and artificial fibers.

Linen also works great in a heavier weight to line wool winter cloaks, or as a shirt under a wool tunic during the winter, because wool provides almost no protection from the wind, while the linen will work fairly well as a windbreaking fabric while still being comfortable and breathable.

Linen Care

Linen is pretty easy to care for. Wash it hot before you sew with it to get the shrink out, then wash it cold. Don't use bleach. It's vulnerable over time by sweat and other acids, and to the degrading actions of bacteria and mildew, so wash it as often as possible after uses. Air dry or use your drier's gentlest setting until its only slightly damp and then air dry it to finish.

It's also a good idea to sew a thick patch of similar covered wool outside of the knees of any linen pants that you intend to fight in. When you grind linen into the ground and the mud and the dirt (ie, when you're fighting legged) it does damage the fabric (although it's more resilient than most cotton), but when you grind wool into the ground it just makes it thicker and feltier and more matter, and saves a lot of wear on the knees of your linen pants.

Linen Suppliers

http://www.fabric-store.com

One of the best places on the internets to get all kinds of linen fabrics, most for well under $10/yard. They categorize their linen according to its weight, which I find to be extremely helpful, but you might find it confusing at first. So, about 3 to 4 oz linen is light of handkerchief weight, 5 to 6 is medium weight, 6 to 7 is heavyweight, and 8+ is canvas weight, although these categories are far from exact. They give you a good approximation, though. I'd use no less than 6 oz for fighting pants, no less than 5 oz for fighting tunics, and maybe as low as 4 oz for an undertunic you might wear while fighting. You can of course go lower for feast and other non-fighting garb as appropriate, but I'd get samples first or talk to someone who's experienced with such things before you order. I am not responsible if you don't buy the right weight! If you're not sure, contact me or someone else who's done this before.

http://www.fashionfabricsclub.com/

Another good site for all kinds of fabric, especially linen, and they seem to have lower prices sometimes than fabric-store.com. Also check out their wool and silk selections if you're interested.

Cotton

Coming soon to a thread near you!

(Yes, I am going to talk about cotton. I hear a lot of people say that cotton's period because it was being made in India and Egypt and imported to Europe, which is true, but that doesn't mean that everything that says 100% cotton is appropriate for Medievalesque clothing so I'm going to talk about this.)

Silk

Silk has been imported to Europe since at least Roman times, and some scholars say that Homer speaks of Odysseus owning a shirt of silk, a shirt "gleaming like the skin of a dried onion" (literal translation). Silk manufacture in Europe first began in around 550 AD, when the Byzantines first acquired silk worms and the knowledge of how to grow them, although this was a very closely guarded secret and everyone who knew how to make silk did everything they could to prevent others from learning how. Silk was also produced during the Middle Ages by the Moors in Spain, and later by Venetians and Florentines in Italy.

During the Middle Ages, only the wealthy could afford to own any silk at all, and silk thread for embroidery was the most common usage. An entire garment sewn from silk fabric would have been exceedingly expensive! It would have been dyed in the richest, brightest colors, including kermes for scarlet, true indigo for blue, saffron for yellow and orange, and Tyrian purple from murex shells. Silk accepts dye very well, but the brighest colors are achieved in silk not by dying it but by feeding the worms different food that causes their silk to change colors, which can produce colors as bright as modern chemical dyes if done correctly. This was the stuff of kings and emperors, the finest cloth known, although, as with other fabrics it of course comes in different levels of quality. Some worms produce better silk than others, and some of the threads from the cocoon are more desirable than others, so it might be possible for a middle level lord or a rich warrior to own a silk tunic of middle or lower quality fabric.

So, about silk in Belegarth.

I don't really know. I have several yards of raw silk fabric, of what is probably fairly low quality. It's a bit rough, tightly woven in a simple 1/1 pattern, handwoven in China from unprocessed raw silk, so probably a pretty good impression of what middle or low quality silk would have been like in the Middle Ages. It's dyed a brilliant color of scarlet, and is about the brightest red I've ever seen. I've also got a bit less than a yard of the same in a purple that's identical to murex purple, and probably have just enough to get one tunic for myself and one for my gf. I paid $10 a yard for it for 45" wide fabric secondhand from the Armour Archive, I don't know where to get it firsthand.

Guntar von Keitz has a shirt or tunic or something of it, and says it feels wonderful in the heat at Ragnarok, that's all I can tell you for now.

Here's one supplier I found, I don't know anything about types still though:

http://www.srfabrics.com/index.html

They also carry linens and cottons, but their prices for those fabrics are VERY beatable.

Other Stuff

Anyone who'd like to help collaborate on this, let me know.

Also, post any of your other favorite suppliers here and I'll add them to the post.

Also, feel free to contact me via pm or email if you have any additional questions, comments, or need help or clarification about anything.

My best contact email is bamudd@wustl.edu

[SirOlafr]

What is a good fabric to use for a fighting tunic for SCA heavy combat?
I'm looking for something to make a basic knee length, long sleeved t-tunic for a 10th century viking persona.

I have no clue about types of fabric. I can tell wool, from linen, from cotton and thats about as far as it goes. When it comes to weights and weaves im totally lost. Can anyone provide links to online stores to specific fabrics (not jut the store itself)? color is unimportant.

also any links to specific wool fabric that can be used for tunics or cloaks would be very appreciated.

Thank You.

I'd also recommend a heavier weight linen. My preference is to combine two layers when I make them. In my opinion it helps them hold up long term. Wool can work, but if you get the wrong stuff, or don't shrink it properly it can be a chore keeping it clean. Natural fabrics breathe better. Stay away from anything plasticy.

[Rudolph]

Mine surcoat is made from a heavy linen with Fustian liner. Pretty durable.

[azure d'or]

The last couple of fighting tunics (Norman style) I've made for Seth have been of a hemp linen or hemp cotton belnd, and I've been really pleased wit hthe way they wear.
They also wash really well, and seem to get softer and nicer with washing and usage.
I got the hemp with cotton at fabric.com.

Gwen

[Godric of Castlemont]

A number of years ago my wife made me a linen fighting shirt and after using it a couple of times I will never use anything else ever again. Linen is stronger than cotton, drys faster than wool and is more comfortable than either.

[Blaine de Navarre]

Your best choices for a fighting garment are: linen, linen, or linen.

Wool can be OK; stay away from pretty much anything else.

Unlike most here, I don't think it needs to be all that heavy a linen; I fight in various weights of linen and all of them hold up quite well (I do stay away from the really gauzy stuff).

[Matthew Richardson]

I use a heavy linen for my fighting tunics. Durable, breathes, looks great!

M