Making late 14th century armour

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:07 pm

6 months ago I finished my new late 14th century kit. I put together a series of web pages detailing the process for some interested friends and I thought I'd share it here too.

Making late 14th century armour

A few notes:
1) I'm no expert - my methods probably aren't always the "right" way, nor is my shaping always as good as it should be.
2) I wrote the accompanying text for non-armourers - just ask if you have a more technical question on something I gloss over.

fghthty545y · Post by **fghthty545y** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:13 pm

Cool, thanks.

Sir Gunn · Post by **Sir Gunn** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:15 pm

this looks really great! thanks for all the pics too.

Eamonn MacCampbell · Post by **Eamonn MacCampbell** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:56 pm

Galfrid...Is your Jupon padded in any way????

And if you don't mind some small criticism...The sabatons look really tall...Like the lames are a bit too long..

Over all, the period and look you are going for is excellent....I'm hoping my early 14C kits turns out as nice...Working on making the full maille my self since no-one carries my size in stock.... :lol:

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:08 pm

The jupon is not padded. It has no functionality beyond displaying heraldry. The arming coat has one layer of batting.

The sabatons were made before the greaves and for different turnshoes which is why there is some strangeness.

I had the same problem with mail, thats why I went to Knuut - he does everything to measurements.

Swete · Post by **Swete** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:33 pm

Hot damn that is a rocking kit!

Amazing work you have done there.

Galvyn Lockhart · Post by **Galvyn Lockhart** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 5:31 pm

Jupon needs ermines. :wink:

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:36 pm

What I really like about it is that the silhouette is exactly what's on those hundreds of effigies. Well done!

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:51 pm

The sabaton/greave transition is pretty rough. The greaves could use some more shape, and I could find other things to pick on.

But - This is 410 stainless.
If the images are any indication it was formed with a small number of welds and a very small number of tools and no heat except for the casting.

Overall it has a good look. A very nice line. There isn't the odd shape to the body that most SCA kits end up with. The visible details look good.

It looks good together - as an overall armour and presentation, it has basically the right feel for the period. I like it.

Congratulations.

Could we get some more people to do similar things?

I think that would help the looks of the SCA a lot.

Wade

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:17 pm

Hi Wade, thanks for the comments. Like I mentioned above, the sabatons were built before the rest so they don't really go with it. In retrospect I should have left them off from the photo. The greaves could definitely use more shape but sadly I'm not skilled enough. I would be interested to hear the other stuff you noticed as well. I have a whole list of things in my head that could use improvement (the greave-demigreave transition for example) but its good to have other opinions too. You are correct w.r.t. the build process.

Keegan Ingrassia · Post by **Keegan Ingrassia** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:22 pm

Two questions, good Galfrid:

Any particular reason you chose not to have a strap on your poleyn, behind your knee?

And

On the back of your greaves, why did you choose not to either roll the edge, or add a hook, to keep your demi-greave's strap in place?

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:39 pm

No reason for the lack of strap. It might actually be useful to have one there though, because the poleyn tends to float away from the knee sometimes.

There is a leather loop on the back of the greaves, it just doesn't show up in the photos.

jarlragnar · Post by **jarlragnar** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:43 pm

wcallen wrote:The sabaton/greave transition is pretty rough. The greaves could use some more shape, and I could find other things to pick on.

But - This is 410 stainless.
If the images are any indication it was formed with a small number of welds and a very small number of tools and no heat except for the casting.

Overall it has a good look. A very nice line. There isn't the odd shape to the body that most SCA kits end up with. The visible details look good.

It looks good together - as an overall armour and presentation, it has basically the right feel for the period. I like it.

Congratulations.

Could we get some more people to do similar things?

I think that would help the looks of the SCA a lot.

Wade

I aim to. I'm working on a breastplate w/ fauld and want to do arms with integral spaulders. I also want a flat backed bascinet with a few visors. Galfrid, your kit is a true inspiration.

Knight Sir James · Post by **Knight Sir James** » Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:28 pm

I had no idea you made your kit. You have a diverse set of skills from some basic tools. Nicely done.

Milos N. · Post by **Milos N.** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:31 am

I completely concur with wcallen.
kit looks absolutely great, and even with all of the brass removed it would look good.

Sabatons should be reworked or replaced.
Other details that are off are invisible without closeups, so commenting on them would undermine the praise that you have earned for a great job you have done.

Keep hammering!

Jan van Nyenrode · Post by **Jan van Nyenrode** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:29 pm

Hi Galfrid,

I would just like to second all the praise. Good job and another fine example to others within the SCA of what can be done!

Thank you for the inspiration!

Cheers,

Max

Count Johnathan · Post by **Count Johnathan** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:19 pm

A fine harness Galfrid! Well done.

For those out there who are being inspired to jump in and try their hand at making such a suit could you tell us aprox how many hours went into it and possibly your expenses on this suit?

I've been tinkering with my kit a bit and after seeing this it makes me want to toss my gear into the alley behind my house and start over!

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:12 pm

Thanks for the comments, guys. I appreciate it. I did this by reading the AA and TOMAR, without a "real" armour shop - so if you're in that situation too - here's proof it can be done

Count Johnathan wrote:For those out there who are being inspired to jump in and try their hand at making such a suit could you tell us aprox how many hours went into it and possibly your expenses on this suit?

Hmm, tough question. I think I spent about 4-5 months on and off, a couple hours a day for the actual armour pieces. There was also some significant time devoted to research prior to this.
Tools: All stakes welded together from scrap. Some other stuff I borrowed (shear, drill press, etc), the specialized hammers (~$40 each) were probably the main tool expense (but also my best investment).
Materials: 410 stainless is around $7/ft, so I spent a bit over $100. I bought a half hide for the strapping, I think it was around $50. Rivets and other bits were of trivial cost.
Heat treating ran me about $100 at a commercial facility. Hardened and tempered in a vacuum, the works.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:22 pm

Seriously sweet work. And a very informative site, too.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:56 am

Hi Galfrid. Really nice job on pretty much everything you did on that suit. You have many skills I wish I had, Really nice details to the armor and great hammer work. Keep up the great work and thanks for all the pics,

Take care

Pitbull

Louis de Leon · Post by **Louis de Leon** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:13 am

I think the whole thing is simply amazing. A truly inspired work.

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:27 am

Well done!

Mondor · Post by **Mondor** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:15 pm

Outstanding

McCuistion · Post by **McCuistion** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm

Galfrid atte grene wrote:6 months ago I finished my new late 14th century kit. I put together a series of web pages detailing the process for some interested friends and I thought I'd share it here too.

This is great. I really like your progress pictures. I'm in the same situation as you; I want a kit, but am no pro at this. Your pictures showing the steps are a real inspiration that it can be done.

You did this all cold, right? Did you mention the thickness of your 410 stainless? I really like your creases.

whonew · Post by **whonew** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:32 pm

great thread . I've never made a whole suit , I might try now and hope it comes out half as nice as your's...cheers thanks

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:13 pm

McCuistion wrote:You did this all cold, right? Did you mention the thickness of your 410 stainless?

Yes, all cold. 0.040" and 0.029".

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:59 pm

Amazing!

jarlragnar · Post by **jarlragnar** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:52 pm

Galfrid atte grene wrote:
McCuistion wrote:You did this all cold, right? Did you mention the thickness of your 410 stainless?

Yes, all cold. 0.040" and 0.029".

I take it you dished your breastplate. Did it work harden or did you heat treat it? And how much did it thin in the center?

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:01 pm

The breastplate was a special situation. It was done with heat in someone else's shop. It was raised and it work hardened. Its also 4130 and a little thicker.

istout · Post by **istout** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:26 am

That was exactly the kind of resource I was looking for as a new guy! Thank you for taking the time to do that its fantastic!

Count Johnathan · Post by **Count Johnathan** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:01 pm

If I may ask Galfred what other background do you have in arts or metalworking? Some of the more complex dishing and raising seems a bit beyond a novice armorer.

Perhaps you could show us some of your other projects? Your work is excellent and aside from some of the minor issues that you are already aware of this harness is a great inspiration for those who feel that they can't produce such a quality suit.

What advice do you have for novice armorers who want to try this out but may get discouraged easily when things don't work out quite as they planned?

Thanks!

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:14 pm

Hey, no arts or metalworking experience before armouring. But I have been making armour on and off for 6-7 years now.

I'm sure every armourer has a lot of tips for people starting out - and probably more insightful than mine - but here's a few:

* Pay attention to extant pieces and other primary sources (see signature line). Not worth copying other modern reproductions. This will actually save some headaches down the road. The more familiar you are, the better you can capture the "medieval" look rather than, say, the "SCA" look.
* Spend more time on your design/patterns than on making the real thing. I built a number of parts several times out of cheap galvanized steel to get the pattern and/or technique right.
* Have someone else help you. They don't need to know anything about armour or metalwork. Just having another hand to hold a piece, or to eyeball the fit is really helpful.
* Use available resources - TOMAR spells out how to do pretty much every technique I used, and failing that the AA definitely has a topic.

Auberon Von Bohm · Post by **Auberon Von Bohm** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:04 am

Grettings Galfrid atte grene first of all great work. 2nd where did you acquire those buckles, you used for your straps?

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:18 am

I think it looks fantastic. I didn't realize it was all stainless. I really like the way you tulip shaped the vams, and got the elbow articulation so tight. And yet still got such an acute bend. And the spaulders. Usually spaulders with articulations are way too long, and the lames fall half way down the bicep. Yours look like they land perfectly.

I can't give any criticism because any small imperfections have already been mentioned or you've noted, and I'm too envious of the whole thing as it has come together. If nothing else, it's motivated me to get to work on finishing my hard kit. Even though your kit is a bit later and a station target above my man-at-arms kit, I've copied some pics for later reference to fit and finish.
-Cian

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Mon Jan 17, 2011 3:12 pm

Black Axe wrote:Grettings Galfrid atte grene first of all great work. 2nd where did you acquire those buckles, you used for your straps?

Windrose Armoury

Making late 14th century armour

Making late 14th century armour

Re: Making late 14th century armour

nice

Re: Making late 14th century armour

Re: Making late 14th century armour