Rattan falchion/Messer

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:03 pm

Pretty, cool, no?

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:05 pm

I want to keep it, but can't. This point is not illegal.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:06 pm

The handle.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:07 pm

I think the wheel pommel makes it.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:14 pm

This is totally perfect for practice of techniques of the messer.

It rocks!

Duke Areus · Post by **Duke Areus** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:57 pm

That is cool as hell!!

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:00 pm

If I can quote a certain animated duck ...

"It's mine, you understand?! Mine! All mine! Get back in there! Down, down, down! Go, go, go! Mine, mine, mine! Mwahahahahahaha!"

:mrgreen:

And ya'll thought I really enjoyed using Vitus' axe in melee ... hee hee hee ..

"Hassan chop!"

Keegan Ingrassia · Post by **Keegan Ingrassia** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:07 pm

Iain Ruadh wrote:If I can quote a certain animated duck ...

"It's mine, you understand?! Mine! All mine! Get back in there! Down, down, down! Go, go, go! Mine, mine, mine! Mwahahahahahaha!"

And ya'll thought I really enjoyed using Vitus' axe in melee ... hee hee hee ..

"Hassan chop!"

Now I have to go track down Ali Baba Bunny. Thanks.

ETA the second: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agLwIxiE ... re=related

Really found it this time.

Dietrich von Stroheim · Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:39 pm

That is crazy cool. I used to love fighting with messer and buckler in steel...I wouldn't use a sword that nice in SCA heavy, though, since I blow through rattan like kleenex.

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:15 pm

That's pretty sweet. As long as you don't try to thrust with it, what's not legal about the point?

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:26 pm

Dietrich von Stroheim wrote:That is crazy cool. I used to love fighting with messer and buckler in steel...I wouldn't use a sword that nice in SCA heavy, though, since I blow through rattan like kleenex.

I agree with you in part. This is the type of weapon to be used with those who appreciate it and I'd be willing to lend it to. I'm trying to make it down to Friday and Sat. of Gulf Wars (damn you Grad school!) and would greatly enjoy spending a few passes with you if you would also be able to attend and letting you test it's balance and grip at your pleasure. With luck we might be able to scrounge up a barrier or such and get some others to join in with various 'toys' and sharing of company, stories and drink!

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:32 pm

AwP wrote:That's pretty sweet. As long as you don't try to thrust with it, what's not legal about the point?

No padding. But it is shaped and rounded so a cutting tip shot won't seriously harm someone (i.e. a non-rounded sword tip with the 90 degree edge which makes a nice fillet/slashing wound) **

**spoken from a former MP ... take the issued oak riot baton and smack it on the curbside to break off the rounded tip and leave a nice jagged edge for slashing and stabbing during riot ... never had to do so myself but watched an entire Marine detachment do so after we traded our oak for their polymer ones and then wade on in. **

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:42 pm

Iain Ruadh wrote:
AwP wrote:That's pretty sweet. As long as you don't try to thrust with it, what's not legal about the point?

No padding. But it is shaped and rounded so a cutting tip shot won't seriously harm someone (i.e. a non-rounded sword tip with the 90 degree edge which makes a nice fillet/slashing wound) **

**spoken from a former MP ... take the issued oak riot baton and smack it on the curbside to break off the rounded tip and leave a nice jagged edge for slashing and stabbing during riot ... never had to do so myself but watched an entire Marine detachment do so after we traded our oak for their polymer ones and then wade on in. **

How is it worse than regular rattan swords with no thrusting tips? I'd rather be hit with a tip shot by Vitus' falchion than a regular flat tipped sword, especially since being single edged, that back corner is never likely to hit me..

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:50 pm

Technically the standard SCA blade is supposed to have rounded/dulled the tip/edge of their blades and marshals should be looking for this at inspection. If not, well then yeah .. I can do a bunch of pain planting a non-rounded/edge into someones chest. We used to do it a lot in An Tir even with rounded edges (both on our single blades and clacker edged axes). Of course this was more of our crazy dumb silly crew in our local group that had blades set up this way for use amongst ourselves. Nipple ring hunting was an enjoyable pastime if yer opponent didn't have decent armour ... and no, I'm still on my 1st set ... I learned from the others quick and made a good Visby coat of plates that didn't overlap/pinch when hit (nor leave me open).

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:07 pm

My understanding is that the top edges of a non-thrusty sword only needs a slight radius, not completely rounded, so would it be legal if that back corner on Vitus' was slightly radiused? Compared to the drastic curve of the front edge, a slight radius on the back would hardly be noticeable and wouldn't really take away from the look at all.

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:27 pm

AwP wrote:My understanding is that the top edges of a non-thrusty sword only needs a slight radius, not completely rounded, so would it be legal if that back corner on Vitus' was slightly radiused? Compared to the drastic curve of the front edge, a slight radius on the back would hardly be noticeable and wouldn't really take away from the look at all.

True, it could be as needed and a decent foam shape could be used to keep the form correct as well. We still couldn't thrust with it, but it would still look very snazy. I think we are on the same path/idea/goal for this.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:33 pm

That is not rattan- that is a thrusting tip.

The point should be completely legal. It's a thrusting tip that Palymar designed. It is of legal width and you can't get it between the bars of a grille- no way.

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:35 pm

Dur, I completely misread your post, I thought you said "this point isn't legal". Doubly awesome then.

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:25 pm

Dohh ... I pretty much forgot the best quote for this also from a favorite duck ..

"I can't help it, I'm a greedy slobâ€”it's my hobby"

Oh and I was thinking the tip was curved rattan and didn't realize or expect to do any thrusting with it! Double bonus!!!!

mjaay · Post by **mjaay** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:09 am

Vitus have you ever done a curved blade like this? I have no idea if you can get a decent curve out of rattan but if anyone can pull it off its you.

Dietrich von Stroheim · Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:04 am

Iain Ruadh wrote:I agree with you in part. This is the type of weapon to be used with those who appreciate it and I'd be willing to lend it to. I'm trying to make it down to Friday and Sat. of Gulf Wars (damn you Grad school!) and would greatly enjoy spending a few passes with you if you would also be able to attend and letting you test it's balance and grip at your pleasure. With luck we might be able to scrounge up a barrier or such and get some others to join in with various 'toys' and sharing of company, stories and drink!

Absolutely...it's a date! Doing some rattan single-sword messer duels or sword and buckler would be a great way to finish out the war. Let's plan further details closer to GW.

Matthew Richardson · Post by **Matthew Richardson** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:57 am

But is it up to Atenveldt standards??

M

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:23 pm

Iain Ruadh wrote:
AwP wrote:My understanding is that the top edges of a non-thrusty sword only needs a slight radius, not completely rounded, so would it be legal if that back corner on Vitus' was slightly radiused? Compared to the drastic curve of the front edge, a slight radius on the back would hardly be noticeable and wouldn't really take away from the look at all.

True, it could be as needed and a decent foam shape could be used to keep the form correct as well. We still couldn't thrust with it, but it would still look very snazy. I think we are on the same path/idea/goal for this.

Iain, I GOTTA see (and prolly feel) this soon.

Can't make it to Val Day, I guess I'll have to feel it somewhere else

Thomas MacFinn · Post by **Thomas MacFinn** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:56 pm

mjaay wrote:Vitus have you ever done a curved blade like this? I have no idea if you can get a decent curve out of rattan but if anyone can pull it off its you.

While it is possible to curve rattan with a steam chamber, I've always thought it was best to simply start with rattan that has grown curved. Find a merchant with enough rattan and there is probibly a curved stick or two in his stock that he hasn't been able to sell because so many customers prefer the straitest possible rattan.

Peikko · Post by **Peikko** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:03 pm

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:I think the wheel pommel makes it.

Technically, with that pommel its a falchion...you don't see hilts like that on messers. That aside, I absolutely love it, great work.

Aaryq · Post by **Aaryq** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:39 pm

You happen to have any pics you took during construction? I've always been interested in the construction of non-standard rattan weapons (something more than just a round stick)

Count Johnathan · Post by **Count Johnathan** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:42 pm

Sir Mathghamhain MacAlpin wrote:But is it up to Atenveldt standards??

M

Micah Nelson · Post by **Micah Nelson** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:38 am

Vitus does it again... Your weapons are definitely the gold standard for pretty, and that one certainly looks like it'll leave a bruise or two. As far as the construction is concerned... how did you do the tang? Is it a 90 degree cut, and then ovaled, or tapered, or what? The last sword I had where I'd shaved the tang down below the guard broke the first time I used it. Granted, it was a greatsword, so the leverage was different. I just would love to hear any kind of feedback as to how this (or any of the actual sword-shaped sticks) design holds up in a fight?

RoaK · Post by **RoaK** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:27 pm

So did someone send ou the hilt and pommel and you made the rest for them?

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:31 pm

RoaK wrote:So did someone send ou the hilt and pommel and you made the rest for them?

Looks like Windrose.

I've got the same hilt on my Great Sword!