Jouster killed in UK

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:13 pm

http://swns.com/jouster-killed-after-sp ... 71505.html

"Tragic Paul Allen, 54, died when the shard from his wooden lance flew through the eye slit in his helmet and pierced his eye socket, inflicting horrific brain injuries."

Steve

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:21 pm

This is the third time since I started I have heard of this happeneing.

Greenshield · Post by **Greenshield** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:23 pm

Yes, this happened a few years ago. They were part of the Vikings UK if I remember. His widow made a post that he died doing what he loved. It was quite moving.

G

zachos · Post by **zachos** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:27 pm

It's possible it's just the same incident, as this actually happened in 2007, and this is actually just reporting the inquest.

It's a tragic occurrence that should never have been allowed to happen. The equipment just wasn't up to the task of defending him.

Johann ColdIron · Post by **Johann ColdIron** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:27 pm

Leo Medii wrote::(

This is the third time since I started I have heard of this happeneing.

It sucks greatly. It happened in period as well. Though a breath hole! What are the odds of that?

Perhaps they need to consider adding perfmetal to any openings.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:52 pm

That is odd....wow...that would really be high odds to get in there. I know most tilting helms have no breaths on the side of impact. I know mine has none-

However, on a really good hit, they really can go anywhere. Here is a good one where I really blasted Jeff Kalman last year. The lance shards went all over.

zachos · Post by **zachos** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:58 pm

His equipment was not made for the joust. It was footman's equipment, being used to joust in. I believe this was because the production company refused the cost of hiring professional jousters.

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:02 pm

zachos wrote:His equipment was not made for the joust. It was footman's equipment, being used to joust in. I believe this was because the production company refused the cost of hiring professional jousters.

Recipie for disaster!

Still feel bad for the guy, his widow, AND the guy who he was riding against. I know back in the day we were REALLY competetive and want to totally unhorse the guy and win. However, in our jouster world, you never, ever, ever wanted your brothers to be hurt. Ever.

Peikko · Post by **Peikko** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:09 pm

zachos wrote:His equipment was not made for the joust. It was footman's equipment, being used to joust in. I believe this was because the production company refused the cost of hiring professional jousters.

Horrible...

The Iron Dwarf · Post by **The Iron Dwarf** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:14 pm

I hope the production company had to pay for their cost cutting :evil:

Peikko · Post by **Peikko** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:46 pm

The Iron Dwarf wrote:I hope the production company had to pay for their cost cutting

Agreed

Count Johnathan · Post by **Count Johnathan** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:25 pm

That sucks. Sounds like numerous errors made by everyone involved.

For you all who do Joust, be careful out there. Small errors have big consequnces in that arena.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:42 pm

poor guy

Still

this does nothing to dissuade me from wanting to joust

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:28 pm

It is very sad. I wonder though even if the lances are franged, the equipment is top grade and coronels are used, that a freak shatter could still cause a shard to enter the occularium.

I am surprised that some folk say it would never happen, ever. I assume that you can push the tolerance levels to a point where the chances are statistically insignificant. But never?

Be interested on some opinions of this. Seen two examples of lances shards nearly taking someone's eye out. Both competent jousters on trained mounts. Would love to avoid it myself.

I would assume the never would come from a non-historical gauze inside the eye slots. But not from period stuff???

Jonathan Baird · Post by **Jonathan Baird** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:39 pm

Murdock wrote:poor guy

Still

this does nothing to dissuade me from wanting to joust

Move to Western NC and I will get you up on one of our horses any day you are free. Not jousting yet but the learning curve is steep and we are working toward it.

Lloyd · Post by **Lloyd** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:17 pm

Not only helms. A few years ago, my squires were taking my armour off after a joust with Shane Adams, a 22" piece of lance had slid through the arm opening and was lodged between my back and the backplate. Didn't know it was there until it fell and hit the ground when they unstrapped me.

Plenty of times have I had shards stuck in the hinge areas of my helms.

There is a reason that we constantly push for maximum occullar openings of 1/3" or less (1/4" is better).

Lucian Ro · Post by **Lucian Ro** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:27 pm

Gideon Woulfesbane wrote:
Murdock wrote:poor guy

Still

this does nothing to dissuade me from wanting to joust

Move to Western NC and I will get you up on one of our horses any day you are free. Not jousting yet but the learning curve is steep and we are working toward it.

Gideon, where are you in NC? My parents are in Murphy and I visit them quite frequently. Would love to learn how to joust, or learn how to ride in a similar capacity.

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:18 pm

Andrew McKinnon wrote:It is very sad. I wonder though even if the lances are franged, the equipment is top grade and coronels are used, that a freak shatter could still cause a shard to enter the occularium.

I am surprised that some folk say it would never happen, ever. I assume that you can push the tolerance levels to a point where the chances are statistically insignificant. But never?

Be interested on some opinions of this. Seen two examples of lances shards nearly taking someone's eye out. Both competent jousters on trained mounts. Would love to avoid it myself.

I would assume the never would come from a non-historical gauze inside the eye slots. But not from period stuff???

Ask him:

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:13 pm

Thanks Baron. I guess I did! That's why I question the 'never'.

Jonathan Baird · Post by **Jonathan Baird** » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:31 pm

I am right dead in the middle if you drew a line from Charlotte to Boone and from Asheville to Winston Salem. My family and I own 40 acres with trails to ride about a mile from my house and an their is also an entire state park with the nicest and easiest riding trails you have ever seen about 5 miles away. Come by if you are in the area.

Eduard · Post by **Eduard** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:31 pm

I can speak from experience that this hurts in an unbelievable fashion. My xp was from a real sword. Still I am sorry that this has occurred. I was lucky enough to have lived. Had I died I would have done so during something I love. Sounds like the same for this gentleman.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:56 pm

Not only did his equipment suck, but it was his first actual pass with the lance when it happened. This guy was NOT an experience jouster, by any stretch of the imagination.

The photo I saw earlier showed a guy in a footmans sallet.. not sure if that's just archive footage, or the incident in question.

LeeC · Post by **LeeC** » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:54 am

Paul Allen was not a neophyte jouster, but we make our choices for good or ill, and things happen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M4qwPEwivA

http://www.300spartanwarriors.com/ancie ... ctors.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ident.html

From all I have heard he was a good man, and an excellent reenactor who loved what he did passionately.