Torso Protection Question

Aaryq · Post by **Aaryq** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:55 pm

Hello, Friends.
I've got a question on torso protection. What would an easy form of rigid body protection to make that is not a brigandine, lamellar or COP? I'd made a COP earlier and didn't like how it turned out. I'd ordered a brig a while ago and have no clue when it's going to show up so in the mean time, I'd like to try my hand at some something else. I'm not really worried about any specific culture or time. Anything from 600-1600 with access to a european court is my timeframe. The project is more for passing time and practice working with metal on a beginner's level.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:28 pm

Build an SCA-Engineered School of Armour Design kidney belt?

Usually of hockey plastic as they go under stuff most often, but metal is fine too. And they can be made handsome... I've seen a few of the Dwarvish-wrestlers'-belt variety that were nice to look at however unperiod they might be.

I like to make kidney belts kind of fancy, with more than the usual number of pieces of plate to them. K-belts can come in as few as two plates for the kind that do not wrap all the way around the fighter.

A 5-plate k-belt goes: 1) tall narrow plate directly over the spine, and concave to fit in the hollow of that spine. 2 & 3) the usual plates, rising in a curve towards your spine, from about the side of you; big end on either side of the spine and overlapping the central spinal plate, hinging however you prefer on either side of it. Overlap there also means it will set up rigid if you really take a whack across the small of your back from Duke Ultra-Wrapshot. These plates may be lightly dished to tuck their edges in towards you. 4 & 5) these are smaller plates that meet over your belly and have the buckle fastenings. Probably two of them, on belt weight leather, and simple buckles. These plates will also get dished a tad. Use your belly curves there to fit the plates to.

If you've got a suitable scrap to use, you might care to put a tab of metal upon a leather hinge at the top of the central spinal plate to cover another couple vertebrae. Or go whole hog and run a series of lames all the way up to your gorget using suspenders that go over your shoulders and down to secure to plates 4 and 5. Sort of a Sam Browne SCA kidney belt with total spinal coverage in case you fall on something or have a freak spear accident.

This should produce an effective and neatly fitted, crafty kidney belt/body bracelet, good for any Kingdom whatsoever.

fghthty545y · Post by **fghthty545y** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:32 pm

What about a scale cuariass?
I'm having trouble thinking of anythign else besides a corizannia/breastplate. (and what you mentioned)

jarlragnar · Post by **jarlragnar** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:32 pm

AFAIK your typical COP is going to be your easiest from of body protection to nail. You could try making a churburg style globose breastplate. I am working on one now and am attaching a fauld. I haven't decided on the nature of the back protection though.

Point is, the Churburg BP is a great beginners project. It teaches dishing (or raising if you're doing it right) edge rolling, and cultvates an eye for shape.

You could also try a corrazzina, but that seem like it would be much more work than either a BP or COP.

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:42 pm

Chahar-Ai-Ne
or something like that, I;m sure Norman can correct me if I'm wrong.
basically you have a more or less tombstone shaped plate on your chest, 2 rectangle plates over your ribs, and another tombstone shaped plate on your back. or they could all be rectangles, or discs, or octagons, or really a bunch of shapes. but the simple ones i've seen tend towards rectangles and tombstones though.

they show up in the middle east, India and that sort of area of the world, and range from plain barley shaped pieces of steel to engraved and gilded pieces of art.

Google chahar-ai-ne or mirror armour and see what comes up in the pictures for more ideas

Aaryq · Post by **Aaryq** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:47 pm

Scale sounds interesting. I've always loved scale, but it just seems like so much of a PITA to hand rivet each individual scale to the backing. Any speedy process for the scales not visible? What about lining them up to ensure they're all in a row?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:49 pm

Char-Aina. Octagonal or circular plate in front, another in back, rectangular or scoop-topped plates to either side, buckle fastening and suspender straps over the shoulders, usually crossing in an X on the back.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:53 pm

Would a Roman Lorica Segmenta be late enough? They are reasonably easy to build, provide good protection and good mobility.

Sean

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:01 pm

You could make an easy plastic breastplate if you want to cover it.

Sean Powell wrote:Would a Roman Lorica Segmenta be late enough? They are reasonably easy to build, provide good protection and good mobility.

Sean

That came up in another thread, there is no "late enough" anymore, the post 600ad rule is gone.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:07 pm

If it ever was... I always figured SCA period ran from 410 AD to January of 1603.

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:14 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:If it ever was... I always figured SCA period ran from 410 AD to January of 1603.

I always heard 600-1600, why 1603?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:10 pm

To 1600 is good enough.

1603 was the year of Elizabeth I's death, and the end of an era.

AD 410, if you're curious about that too, was the first fall of Rome in the fifth century. They got clobbered again even more seriously in 476. I've always said "Take your pick."

AwP · Post by **AwP** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:16 pm

Konstantin the Red wrote:To 1600 is good enough.

1603 was the year of Elizabeth I's death, and the end of an era.

AD 410, if you're curious about that too, was the first fall of Rome in the fifth century. They got clobbered again even more seriously in 476. I've always said "Take your pick."

Yeah, I got the 410 one, though I like to go with 476 and the exile of Augustulus as my "official" fall of the western Romans, but the 1603 threw me for a loop.

hrolf · Post by **hrolf** » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:34 pm

armored surcoat!

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:12 am

As a stop gap I like the churburg #13 style breastplate in plastic.
Figuring that it will probibly roll over into loaner gear or be tossed once your stuff arrives.
For the back I use two straps straight down from the sholders to the wrap plates about 2" from the spine, and a heart shaped piece covering the upper back with a rectangular shape to cover between that and the wrap plates.

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:44 am

The internet is funny -- it is sometimes a good thing when people rip you off in certain ways. This fellow stole most of my armour articles and rearranged them to his own interest.
Good for me as Yahoo destroyed my site.
Anyhow - take a look here for some options, there are drawings of Char Ai Ne as well as other mirror types and brassier armours.
http://hetar.dyn.pl/strona/panc.htm

I like this arrangement --
it is a Peti (thick quilted cloth or layered leather girdle armour) with Brassier plates and spaulders.
If I remember correctly, I based this on a 7th century Central Asian painting
[img]http://hetar.dyn.pl/strona/panc_clip_image014.gif[/img]
I can't seem to find the drawing I did of the Peti by itself.

Here is a nice photo of a Peti girdle (but without shoulders and back tab)

AH! Here is a gorgeous one with shoulders.
This view is from the back. The middle "tab" goes between the shoulder blades and often braces the neck.
The front usualy laces up with rings like the simpler one above.

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:53 am

Make a breastplate. A pretty boring late 14th/early 15th or very early 16th c. globose one isn't that hard. It can be done by some pretty basic dishing.

Less cutting and riveting than COP/brig/armoured surcoat. Can look good when you are done. If not carefully finished at least it provides a good profile for the clothing.

Wade